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Fined £100 by the bin police
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| Lichfield Avenue residents Laura Davies, with her son Ryan, and Patrick and Tracey Seery received £100 fines after bags were left beside the communal wheelie bins, which they say are not big enough. Picture by Paul Jackson. 18381401 |
PEOPLE living in a block of Worcester flats were shocked when a police community support officer turned up to issue them with a £100 fine for failing to use their wheelie bins properly.
Tenants at the block of flats in Ronkswood had been putting their rubbish out in bin bags when the communal wheelie bins provided become full.
But their actions have resulted in them each being issued with £100 fixed penalty notices and a threat of court action with a possible £1,000 fine if they fail to pay.
A representative of Worcester Community Housing, accompanied by a PCSO, visited Lichfield Avenue, Ronkswood, on Thursday morning to dish out the fixed penalty notices.
At least three tenants in a block of six flats were issued with notices by the PCSO for failure to comply with waste receptacles notice'.
Single mother Laura Davies, aged 19, said: "I was really shocked when they turned up and gave these fines out. There are not enough bins for us all to use, so what else are we supposed to do with our rubbish?
I cannot afford to pay £100, I have a two-year-old child to care for."
Tenants in six flats have to share two black wheelie bins and two green ones, which are collected on alternate weeks.
Patrick and Tracey Seery have lived in the flats for 26 years. Mr Seery, aged 71, said: "This is so unfair."
Mrs Seery, aged 44, said: "We told the lady there were not enough bins, but she just said that it wasn't her problem and that we should ask for another."
Shaun Dayus, aged 22, and his partner Clare Houldey, aged 18, also received a fixed penalty notice.
He said: "There are only two black bins, serving six flats, and they are only emptied once a fortnight. We cannot possibly fit all our bags into the two bins so we have to leave them by the side."
The £100 fine is reduced to £60 if paid within 10 days, and residents are entitled to appeal against the notice.
The tenants all insisted that they had received no prior warnings that they could be fined. However, Worcester City Council said they were all issued with notices earlier this year, informing them that they must not leave bags outside the black bins.
Mike Harrison, the city's head of cleaner and greener, said residents were later issued a further notice, stating they had failed to comply and would be fined.
Mr Harrison said the council had been asked to take action by Worcester Community Housing, which owns the flats.
Jean Dalziel, customer services director at WCH, said: "Rubbish being dumped at this location has been a big problem for a while now. We had lots of complaints from people about the mess." She promised to look into whether the bins were adequate.
The fixed penalty notices were issued by a PCSO for Worcester City Council.
7:10am Saturday 3rd May 2008
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CommentPosted by: stu, royston vasey on 8:39am Sat 3 May 08
Nobody pay the fine and elect to go to court and make them prove who's rubbish it was. Hopefully the binmen have taken the rubbish away so the evidence has been destroyed
Nobody pay the fine and elect to go to court and make them prove who's rubbish it was. Hopefully the binmen have taken the rubbish away so the evidence has been destroyed
Posted by: stu, royston vasey on 8:39am Sat 3 May 08
Nobody pay the fine and elect to go to court and make them prove who's rubbish it was. Hopefully the binmen have taken the rubbish away so the evidence has been destroyed
Nobody pay the fine and elect to go to court and make them prove who's rubbish it was. Hopefully the binmen have taken the rubbish away so the evidence has been destroyed
Posted by: Logik, worcester on 9:01am Sat 3 May 08
Finally we see the real use of Plastic Police, to ensure 'Nanny's bins' are not overused and no one throws away more than 'Nanny' deems allowable.
Mike Harrison has his big stick out again but I bet he hasn't even bothered to look to see what the problems may be before wielding it.
As for Worcester Community Housing, well perhaps they ought to think first before taking along bin Police to issue fines. I note it says:-
[quote]Jean Dalziel, customer services director at WCH, said: "Rubbish being dumped at this location has been a big problem for a while now. We had lots of complaints from people about the mess." She promised to look into whether the bins were adequate.[/quote]
Surely the time to see if the bins are adequate is before you go along with Plastic Plod to issue fines, not after. Further, if the bins are full then they are obviously not adequate in the first place in which case the council is failing in its duty to collect domestic refuse.
[quote]Mr Harrison said the council had been asked to take action by Worcester Community Housing, which owns the flats.[/quote]
Action could have included supplying an extra bin, but that doesn't swell the coffers does it.
Tinpot dictators.
Finally we see the real use of Plastic Police, to ensure 'Nanny's bins' are not overused and no one throws away more than 'Nanny' deems allowable.
Mike Harrison has his big stick out again but I bet he hasn't even bothered to look to see what the problems may be before wielding it.
As for Worcester Community Housing, well perhaps they ought to think first before taking along bin Police to issue fines. I note it says:-
Jean Dalziel, customer services director at WCH, said: "Rubbish being dumped at this location has been a big problem for a while now. We had lots of complaints from people about the mess." She promised to look into whether the bins were adequate.
Surely the time to see if the bins are adequate is before you go along with Plastic Plod to issue fines, not after. Further, if the bins are full then they are obviously not adequate in the first place in which case the council is failing in its duty to collect domestic refuse.
Mr Harrison said the council had been asked to take action by Worcester Community Housing, which owns the flats.
Action could have included supplying an extra bin, but that doesn't swell the coffers does it.
Tinpot dictators.
Posted by: Alan2, Worcester on 11:24am Sat 3 May 08
It is highly questionable whether PCSOs should be used for this purpose and I totally agree with stu above. The whole purpose of PCSOs is to get closer to the Community - some hope with these Gestapo tactics. Every one that got a FPN should complain to the Chief Constable at Hindlip - dont bother with the local station in Castle Street. This is an outrage if officialdom allows PCSos to be used for this purpose - I will stand corrected it is not within there powers unless they interpret it as depositing litter - which I doubt. COMPLAIN.
It is highly questionable whether PCSOs should be used for this purpose and I totally agree with stu above. The whole purpose of PCSOs is to get closer to the Community - some hope with these Gestapo tactics. Every one that got a FPN should complain to the Chief Constable at Hindlip - dont bother with the local station in Castle Street. This is an outrage if officialdom allows PCSos to be used for this purpose - I will stand corrected it is not within there powers unless they interpret it as depositing litter - which I doubt. COMPLAIN.
Posted by: chippie, Worcester on 12:19pm Sat 3 May 08
Pity the CSO's aren't fining people for riding on the pavement and vehicles parked on the pavement obstructing access
Pity the CSO's aren't fining people for riding on the pavement and vehicles parked on the pavement obstructing access
Posted by: tim, North Of England on 12:22pm Sat 3 May 08
As a PCSO (not local to this area) I do not think this is the type of job the officer should be used for
PCSOs are not tax collectors, nor should they be used by local authorities as a private police force
They should be used for the core areas like anti social behaviour, youth disorder and community relations
What a total waste of time and money
Its no wonder the public has such a low
View of PCSOs if this is what we are being used for
I am sure the council is more than able of running affairs without the need to take the uniform backup of a PCSO every time it needs to confront its residents over an issue
What next will it ask the PCSOs to stand outside the supermarket to check how many carry bags are being used
As a PCSO (not local to this area) I do not think this is the type of job the officer should be used for
PCSOs are not tax collectors, nor should they be used by local authorities as a private police force
They should be used for the core areas like anti social behaviour, youth disorder and community relations
What a total waste of time and money
Its no wonder the public has such a low
View of PCSOs if this is what we are being used for
I am sure the council is more than able of running affairs without the need to take the uniform backup of a PCSO every time it needs to confront its residents over an issue
What next will it ask the PCSOs to stand outside the supermarket to check how many carry bags are being used
Posted by: hotfuzz, Stourport on 12:24pm Sat 3 May 08
There is a practical solution for all residents who are not receiving proper service for their Council Tax by having sufficient refuse collection - especially food waste which will again be a health hazard in the summer months - [bold]put most of your rubbish in public waste bins in the streets[/bold] - then it really will be the local councils' problem.
There is a practical solution for all residents who are not receiving proper service for their Council Tax by having sufficient refuse collection - especially food waste which will again be a health hazard in the summer months -
put most of your rubbish in public waste bins in the streets - then it really will be the local councils' problem.
Posted by: varien, worcester on 1:07pm Sat 3 May 08
I would ask Mike Harrison "What is wrong with bin men throwing the plastic bags into the back of the trucks?" They have to do this anyway for households that are excused from having to use wheelie bins.
My advice is not to pay the fine and go to court and deny leaving rubbish in bags - it has to be proved they did.
I would ask Mike Harrison "What is wrong with bin men throwing the plastic bags into the back of the trucks?" They have to do this anyway for households that are excused from having to use wheelie bins.
My advice is not to pay the fine and go to court and deny leaving rubbish in bags - it has to be proved they did.
Posted by: Outraged, Pergatory on 1:08pm Sat 3 May 08
I simply agree and add support to all of the comments above ;)
I simply agree and add support to all of the comments above ;)
Posted by: Stan Parr, Pershore on 6:04pm Sat 3 May 08
I also agree with all the comments above - especially those from Tim (in the North of England) who says:
"....I am sure the council is more than able of running affairs without the need to take the uniform backup of a PCSO..."
- are well, there you have it Tim! The knub of the problem, methinks!
Something about organising parties in breweries, comes to mind!
TWO black Wheelies for SIX flats? Even if the big ones - someone is extracting the Michael!
To the tenants: I suggest you say "see you in Court"!
I also agree with all the comments above - especially those from Tim (in the North of England) who says:
"....I am sure the council is more than able of running affairs without the need to take the uniform backup of a PCSO..."
- are well, there you have it Tim! The knub of the problem, methinks!
Something about organising parties in breweries, comes to mind!
TWO black Wheelies for SIX flats? Even if the big ones - someone is extracting the Michael!
To the tenants: I suggest you say "see you in Court"!
Posted by: Sir Smeg, Worcester on 8:12pm Sat 3 May 08
In the past, I have found it neccessary to put a bag or two next to my black bin as it was full at the time, the refuse collectors decided thay would not take it, this resulted in me paying for someone to take the bags & contents of the bin to the dump.
My next door neighbour does not seem to have the same problems that I do, he and his family leave umpteen bags next to his bin, and the top is seldom closed as it is usually overflowing with bags, but they still get collected.
He also leaves garden rubbish/grass cuttings out, and this gets collected too, perhaps it's got something to do with him being an ex-refuse collector himself.
Who is the pen pusher responsible for this state of affairs, bring back the old style collection of every week, and let the bin men collect the bin rather than have it left on the footpath and becoming an unsightly obstruction.
I whole heartedly agree with the comments above regarding these ridiculous fines being dished out, tell them to swivel!
In the past, I have found it neccessary to put a bag or two next to my black bin as it was full at the time, the refuse collectors decided thay would not take it, this resulted in me paying for someone to take the bags & contents of the bin to the dump.
My next door neighbour does not seem to have the same problems that I do, he and his family leave umpteen bags next to his bin, and the top is seldom closed as it is usually overflowing with bags, but they still get collected.
He also leaves garden rubbish/grass cuttings out, and this gets collected too, perhaps it's got something to do with him being an ex-refuse collector himself.
Who is the pen pusher responsible for this state of affairs, bring back the old style collection of every week, and let the bin men collect the bin rather than have it left on the footpath and becoming an unsightly obstruction.
I whole heartedly agree with the comments above regarding these ridiculous fines being dished out, tell them to swivel!
Posted by: Anne Palmer, Staffordshire on 12:04am Sun 4 May 08
I am assuming that this comes under the Environmental Protection Act 1990. (Section 45,46,47,) It appears that there is a dispute as to whether the tenants had been notified re the use of Black bags when the bins became full. It may be that the Council have not supplied enough bins for the amount of tenants? It is worth a query. It should be sorted to everyone's satisfaction and to avoid future problems. I doubt the Council wants unnecessary trouble in the same way the tenants do not go looking for trouble. Usually one household has their one set of bins for which the council usually supply.
The fines do seem rather excessive for the alleged "CRIME", but it is entirely a matter for the people concerned whether they challenge this matter in Court, simply pay the fine, or ask for a meeting with the Council and all the tenants to sort out the matter to everyone's satisfaction. See Magna Carta and our Bill of Rights re Fines. There is no point in having a Constitution if it is ignored.
It seems to me if the fine is paid without sorting out the Bins for each flat, it will only be a matter of a week or so before another fine lands on their doorstep. A meeting to me seems to be the best approach to calm down the situation. Those on the spot though know best. I hope you get it sorted very quickly .
I am assuming that this comes under the Environmental Protection Act 1990. (Section 45,46,47,) It appears that there is a dispute as to whether the tenants had been notified re the use of Black bags when the bins became full. It may be that the Council have not supplied enough bins for the amount of tenants? It is worth a query. It should be sorted to everyone's satisfaction and to avoid future problems. I doubt the Council wants unnecessary trouble in the same way the tenants do not go looking for trouble. Usually one household has their one set of bins for which the council usually supply.
The fines do seem rather excessive for the alleged "CRIME", but it is entirely a matter for the people concerned whether they challenge this matter in Court, simply pay the fine, or ask for a meeting with the Council and all the tenants to sort out the matter to everyone's satisfaction. See Magna Carta and our Bill of Rights re Fines. There is no point in having a Constitution if it is ignored.
It seems to me if the fine is paid without sorting out the Bins for each flat, it will only be a matter of a week or so before another fine lands on their doorstep. A meeting to me seems to be the best approach to calm down the situation. Those on the spot though know best. I hope you get it sorted very quickly .
Posted by: John Wylds, Worcester on 9:20am Sun 4 May 08
From what I can see, there are 2 large black bins serving 6 flats. The dimensions of each bin equates roughly to 3 'standard' black wheelie bins. Therefore 6 flats have access to the equivalent of a standard bin each, just like any other household. And seeing as these are flats where you would have 2-3 people living in each, how can these bins be overflowing unless it is because the tenants are not participating fully in the recycling schemes?
From what I can see, there are 2 large black bins serving 6 flats. The dimensions of each bin equates roughly to 3 'standard' black wheelie bins. Therefore 6 flats have access to the equivalent of a standard bin each, just like any other household. And seeing as these are flats where you would have 2-3 people living in each, how can these bins be overflowing unless it is because the tenants are not participating fully in the recycling schemes?
Posted by: ladyluck, worcester on 9:22pm Mon 5 May 08
i think wch should have a long hard think about what comes out their mouth when refering to problems with wheelie bins and recycling.
i asked a few of the contractors working for wch when they were replacing windows and front doors what they were planning on doing with the all the old ones and guess what they said..... landfill!!!!! never heard of freecycle?
i think wch should have a long hard think about what comes out their mouth when refering to problems with wheelie bins and recycling.
i asked a few of the contractors working for wch when they were replacing windows and front doors what they were planning on doing with the all the old ones and guess what they said..... landfill!!!!! never heard of freecycle?
Posted by: ladyluck, worcester on 10:04pm Mon 5 May 08
maybe the council should take a look behind the flats where the garages used to be and the house right next door. i think they have taken recycling a little bit too far. scrap metal, clapped out old cars taking up 5 parking spaces,buses filled with junk. its a joke. wch needs to wake up a bit
maybe the council should take a look behind the flats where the garages used to be and the house right next door. i think they have taken recycling a little bit too far. scrap metal, clapped out old cars taking up 5 parking spaces,buses filled with junk. its a joke. wch needs to wake up a bit
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