VULNERABLE people will suffer because of noisy planes flying over Worcester, says a psychologist.
Roger Nall is deeply concerned that the Ministry of Defence (MOD) has not explained why two "nuisance" planes are flying over city skies or when they will stop.
Chartered psychologist Mr Nall, aged 68, of Ombersley Road, Worcester, said: "My concern is for the old folk around here who may find this difficult.
"This is really distressing. It might be quite a trial for someone lying in bed ill with nothing else to do but listen to these planes.
"The MOD hasn't the courtesy to tell us what
the planes are doing there.
"They treat us like children. People are being treated with contempt and that's so irritating."
Mr Nall, who edits newsletter The Messenger which has featured articles on the plane, has already written to Worcester MP Mike Foster and the MOD's Complaints and Enquires Unit to complain.
He said a senior defence official let slip that the planes could be flying over Worcester until at least 2010.
Defence minister Derek Twigg has apologised to the people of Worcester in a letter to Mr Foster for the noise caused by the planes, which he said were flying at 20,000 feet.
But Mr Nall said they must be flying under that height or it would be impossible to take photographs of them - your Worcester News now has pictures of both planes in flight.
Mr Nall added: "It's driving people mad.
Pilot Ian Cranston, of Worcester, took a photograph of the red plane and believes it is a charter plane being used by the Ministry of Defence.
An MOD spokesman said he had nothing to add beyond what had already been said by defence minister Derek Twigg.
The spokesman was unable to confirm what the planes were being used for or when they would stop flying.
An article in The Guardian newspaper last October suggested that intelligence agencies were using Britten Norman Islanders to eavesdrop on terrorists' telephone conversations on the ground.
As long as a year ago, a reader started a discussion about circling aircraft in our Your Say forums. Add your point of view here.
8:51am Tuesday 6th May 2008
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CommentPosted by: FortRoyal, Worcester on 9:16am Tue 6 May 08
It is a sad fact that the world is, once again, at war, this time against terrorist forces and the undemcratic and crime-fuelled Taliban regime in Afghanistan. On a daily basis our servicemen and woman are putting their lives on the line, far away from home, in the name of freedom, democracy and world security. At this most difficult time, we should all be doing everything possible to show support for our armed forces.
Worcester, supposedly the 'Faithful City', however, can only moan and whinge about the drone of a couple of aircraft engaged on operational duties connected with national security. The noise made by these aircraft, on a scale of 1 - 10, is, I would suggest 2, and is at worst no more than mildly and ocasionally irritating, at best barely noticeable.
Instead of moaning and whinging, how about sparing a thought for the RAF aircrew involved who are flying long hours on what must be extremely monotonous and tedius sorties - helping to preserve, one way or another, national safety and security. If you really do object to the 'noise', the remedy is easy: get a pair of ear plugs or turn up the radio!
Frankly I am absolutely appalled by the moaning and whinging - those involved should reflect hard upon the fact that such comments in Hitler's Germany would have been summarily and violently dealt with - that such freedom of speech exists here is in no small part due to the RAF.
So, stop moaning and whinging! Perhaps we could instead reflect our support of the RAF's efforts by asking for one of the aircraft involved to be named 'Pride of Worcester'?
It is a sad fact that the world is, once again, at war, this time against terrorist forces and the undemcratic and crime-fuelled Taliban regime in Afghanistan. On a daily basis our servicemen and woman are putting their lives on the line, far away from home, in the name of freedom, democracy and world security. At this most difficult time, we should all be doing everything possible to show support for our armed forces.
Worcester, supposedly the 'Faithful City', however, can only moan and whinge about the drone of a couple of aircraft engaged on operational duties connected with national security. The noise made by these aircraft, on a scale of 1 - 10, is, I would suggest 2, and is at worst no more than mildly and ocasionally irritating, at best barely noticeable.
Instead of moaning and whinging, how about sparing a thought for the RAF aircrew involved who are flying long hours on what must be extremely monotonous and tedius sorties - helping to preserve, one way or another, national safety and security. If you really do object to the 'noise', the remedy is easy: get a pair of ear plugs or turn up the radio!
Frankly I am absolutely appalled by the moaning and whinging - those involved should reflect hard upon the fact that such comments in Hitler's Germany would have been summarily and violently dealt with - that such freedom of speech exists here is in no small part due to the RAF.
So, stop moaning and whinging! Perhaps we could instead reflect our support of the RAF's efforts by asking for one of the aircraft involved to be named 'Pride of Worcester'?
Posted by: chippie, Worcester on 10:59am Tue 6 May 08
I sympathise about the noise that people are having to endure, but living a couple of miles from the motorway we have a constant drone of noise and never have a break from it.
I sympathise about the noise that people are having to endure, but living a couple of miles from the motorway we have a constant drone of noise and never have a break from it.
Posted by: Alan2, Worcester on 11:05am Tue 6 May 08
Mr Nall is talking utter tripe. I am elderly (very), they fly immediately over my house and apart from drowning out the bird song they have no effect at all. These people want to get real.
Mr Nall is talking utter tripe. I am elderly (very), they fly immediately over my house and apart from drowning out the bird song they have no effect at all. These people want to get real.
Posted by: BernardM, Worcester on 11:07am Tue 6 May 08
How I agree with the author of the posted comment. People of Worcester stop whinging! If there was an Olympic event for apathy and whinging, Worcester would win gold every time.
What you are hearing is the sound of aircraft going about their legitimate business. It does not matter what the two aircraft are doing, they are obviously needed to do it.
Do we forget that one of the world's most respected electronics and radar research establishments is based at Malvern.
Do we remember that the world's first automated aircraft landing took place at Defford and was pioneered by the TRE (RSRE, DERA subsequently). Is there a plaque near Deffort to commemorate this histroic event - No. Yet this pioneering work has led to airliners around the world being able to land safely in the most appalling weather conditions.
Aircraft fly around this area of England every day and although the C-130J and BN-2T are orbitting for hours at a time they are not thatmuch of a distraction. We also get low level jets and transports (including the C-130J)of many NATO countries transitting our area from East Anglia to the low level flying areas in Wales. The RAF has always enjoyed the support of the public - well every where else apart from Worcester it appears. Remember the Battle of Britain. No RAF, NO Freedom.
Live near Heathrow if you want to complain about noise levels (and then it would be your own fault for buying a house near an airport!)
In an earlier article it was mentioned that the aircraft are flying below 20,000 feet otherwise your readers could not photograph them. Nonsense. Ask your staff photographers what a 400mm telephoto lens is and what magnification it provides.
Jet and Prop Noise is the sound of Freedom.
How I agree with the author of the posted comment. People of Worcester stop whinging! If there was an Olympic event for apathy and whinging, Worcester would win gold every time.
What you are hearing is the sound of aircraft going about their legitimate business. It does not matter what the two aircraft are doing, they are obviously needed to do it.
Do we forget that one of the world's most respected electronics and radar research establishments is based at Malvern.
Do we remember that the world's first automated aircraft landing took place at Defford and was pioneered by the TRE (RSRE, DERA subsequently). Is there a plaque near Deffort to commemorate this histroic event - No. Yet this pioneering work has led to airliners around the world being able to land safely in the most appalling weather conditions.
Aircraft fly around this area of England every day and although the C-130J and BN-2T are orbitting for hours at a time they are not thatmuch of a distraction. We also get low level jets and transports (including the C-130J)of many NATO countries transitting our area from East Anglia to the low level flying areas in Wales. The RAF has always enjoyed the support of the public - well every where else apart from Worcester it appears. Remember the Battle of Britain. No RAF, NO Freedom.
Live near Heathrow if you want to complain about noise levels (and then it would be your own fault for buying a house near an airport!)
In an earlier article it was mentioned that the aircraft are flying below 20,000 feet otherwise your readers could not photograph them. Nonsense. Ask your staff photographers what a 400mm telephoto lens is and what magnification it provides.
Jet and Prop Noise is the sound of Freedom.
Posted by: ombersley rd resident, worcester on 1:03pm Tue 6 May 08
I am surprised at the alleged noise implications associated with these planes, we as a city endure traffic noise of much greater levels for much longer periods. My children adore to see planes in the sky, especially the few military ones we do have. Our Services and Forces have enough to do in the world without worrying about where they can fly whilst training. To ask for an apology was ludicrous, they have a duty to this country, and we complain about the noise of their planes! And as for this "specialist", Mr Nall, what rubbish, I'm sure old people will remember hearing military planes and rejoicing that our boys were up there! Please let this city support its country's military, not knock them. Please lets have more responsible head lines, or more accurate. These types of planes have flown over this city for the 22 years I have worked and lived here!
I am surprised at the alleged noise implications associated with these planes, we as a city endure traffic noise of much greater levels for much longer periods. My children adore to see planes in the sky, especially the few military ones we do have. Our Services and Forces have enough to do in the world without worrying about where they can fly whilst training. To ask for an apology was ludicrous, they have a duty to this country, and we complain about the noise of their planes! And as for this "specialist", Mr Nall, what rubbish, I'm sure old people will remember hearing military planes and rejoicing that our boys were up there! Please let this city support its country's military, not knock them. Please lets have more responsible head lines, or more accurate. These types of planes have flown over this city for the 22 years I have worked and lived here!
Posted by: H3, portoer mill on 2:04pm Tue 6 May 08
Please,please,you people,stop moaning and picking on our boys and girls in the RAF; they have to train over various terrain and at different altitudes.The noise is not continuous and lasts but a few seconds.We are pleased to have them in times of conflict, and to fly rescue missions when required-but they do have to train; so put up with it,stop grumbling,and even consider showing some support for our services.No,I am not conected with the RAF, but I am proud of them.
Please,please,you people,stop moaning and picking on our boys and girls in the RAF; they have to train over various terrain and at different altitudes.The noise is not continuous and lasts but a few seconds.We are pleased to have them in times of conflict, and to fly rescue missions when required-but they do have to train; so put up with it,stop grumbling,and even consider showing some support for our services.No,I am not conected with the RAF, but I am proud of them.
Posted by: fronkthegonk on 3:23pm Tue 6 May 08
Doesn't it rather depend on why they are doing it?
If it is necessary training then so be it but if it is some Qinetiq research then they can fly off somewhere else, preferably over John Majors or George Bush's place.
They appear to be under 20,000 ft, the smaller aircraft certainly is.
Doesn't it rather depend on why they are doing it?
If it is necessary training then so be it but if it is some Qinetiq research then they can fly off somewhere else, preferably over John Majors or George Bush's place.
They appear to be under 20,000 ft, the smaller aircraft certainly is.
Posted by: varien, worcester on 4:23pm Tue 6 May 08
All those against these planes should get a life. What about people who live in the flight paths of major airports. I bet all those that complain are the type that complain about mobile phone masts but will never give up their mobile phones. Similarly those that complain go on holiday by plane and wouldn't give a s**t about people who live near airports. This is selfishness at its peak.
All those against these planes should get a life. What about people who live in the flight paths of major airports. I bet all those that complain are the type that complain about mobile phone masts but will never give up their mobile phones. Similarly those that complain go on holiday by plane and wouldn't give a s**t about people who live near airports. This is selfishness at its peak.
Posted by: BernardM, Worcester on 5:04pm Tue 6 May 08
As a pilot and a keen photographer of aircraft, I would defy any member of the general public to accuately extimate the altitude of an aircraft overflying them. At one time, Air Shows organisers used to have a "guess the speed and height" of an aircraft as a competition for the spectators. These aircraft usually flew between 500 and 2000 feet above airfield datum and you should have seen the wild guesses we used to get. Anything between 100 feet and 5,000 feet.
As a pilot and a keen photographer of aircraft, I would defy any member of the general public to accuately extimate the altitude of an aircraft overflying them. At one time, Air Shows organisers used to have a "guess the speed and height" of an aircraft as a competition for the spectators. These aircraft usually flew between 500 and 2000 feet above airfield datum and you should have seen the wild guesses we used to get. Anything between 100 feet and 5,000 feet.
Posted by: BB, Worcester on 9:13pm Tue 6 May 08
this is one of the most pathetic stories Ive seen on here, cant believe what people moan about. Get a life, its an areoplane, its last but a couple of seconds and yes may fly back again a couple of times, but its not late at night, they are not breaking the law and just remember that there are so many more things that so much more important than a plane flying. those that complain obviously have nothing better to do.
this is one of the most pathetic stories Ive seen on here, cant believe what people moan about. Get a life, its an areoplane, its last but a couple of seconds and yes may fly back again a couple of times, but its not late at night, they are not breaking the law and just remember that there are so many more things that so much more important than a plane flying. those that complain obviously have nothing better to do.
Posted by: AbovePar, Worcester on 9:20pm Tue 6 May 08
I'll tell you what's a worse noise - moaning.
I'll tell you what's a worse noise - moaning.
Posted by: beano, Worcester on 9:22pm Tue 6 May 08
I'm afraid I do find these planes really annoying. From where I live and work in Warndon Villages I can always see and hear the planes circling around. I work 3 shifts and when trying to sleep in the day with this drowning all the time it's driving me mad! Even WITH ear plugs in! Can't they fly them over Wales or something, not over a city? By the way, the Britten Norman Islander seems to be sporting the Red Devil Parachute Regiment colours.
I'm afraid I do find these planes really annoying. From where I live and work in Warndon Villages I can always see and hear the planes circling around. I work 3 shifts and when trying to sleep in the day with this drowning all the time it's driving me mad! Even WITH ear plugs in! Can't they fly them over Wales or something, not over a city? By the way, the Britten Norman Islander seems to be sporting the Red Devil Parachute Regiment colours.
Posted by: George, Pershore on 10:25pm Tue 6 May 08
I can't work it out myself; but there must be a very good reason why circling planes over a flat heavily-peopled bit of England is going to win an illegal war against an abstract noun. Of course, they always know best and only ever act in our interest. Well done you lot above, who took the time to mock and castigate the 'moaners'. They just don't know how lucky they are. If the RAF want to keep you up all night testing products for private companies with dubious export records, then they should be able to! After all, if it wasn't for them you'd all speaking German, or Muslim, or something. Anyone who disagrees with me is unpatriotic and should be deported. There, now shut your mouth.
I can't work it out myself; but there must be a very good reason why circling planes over a flat heavily-peopled bit of England is going to win an illegal war against an abstract noun. Of course, they always know best and only ever act in our interest. Well done you lot above, who took the time to mock and castigate the 'moaners'. They just don't know how lucky they are. If the RAF want to keep you up all night testing products for private companies with dubious export records, then they should be able to! After all, if it wasn't for them you'd all speaking German, or Muslim, or something. Anyone who disagrees with me is unpatriotic and should be deported. There, now shut your mouth.
Posted by: truthteller, worcester on 11:10pm Tue 6 May 08
I live in Blackpole and must admit i have not even noticed the planes or the noise. If people must moan, moan about the traffic noise, barking dogs etc, as least thats noise most of us hear.
I live in Blackpole and must admit i have not even noticed the planes or the noise. If people must moan, moan about the traffic noise, barking dogs etc, as least thats noise most of us hear.
Posted by: val, worcestershire on 1:44am Wed 7 May 08
sorry but i agree about all the moaners having nothing better to do. Come on beano, you are a nimby of the highest order. If we had a terrorist attack YOU would be the first to say where were our security forces and what are we paying them for? I too have spent days in Blackpole and do not really get bothered by them. The traffic at peak time, is much noisier and more of a health hazard, especially trying to cross Blackpole Road and also all the emissions. Get a life and think of all the danger our forces face daily in their working lives. Be very grateful to them as they may well make this country a safer place for you and your family to live. Keep up the good work all our boys and girls in uniform. You ARE the BEST! What does our psychologist friend know? Please do not make assumptions for us all just because you think you are better educated than us and therefore dictate what we should be feeling. We can all live our own lives and think for ourselves. REALLY we can!
sorry but i agree about all the moaners having nothing better to do. Come on beano, you are a nimby of the highest order. If we had a terrorist attack YOU would be the first to say where were our security forces and what are we paying them for? I too have spent days in Blackpole and do not really get bothered by them. The traffic at peak time, is much noisier and more of a health hazard, especially trying to cross Blackpole Road and also all the emissions. Get a life and think of all the danger our forces face daily in their working lives. Be very grateful to them as they may well make this country a safer place for you and your family to live. Keep up the good work all our boys and girls in uniform. You ARE the BEST! What does our psychologist friend know? Please do not make assumptions for us all just because you think you are better educated than us and therefore dictate what we should be feeling. We can all live our own lives and think for ourselves. REALLY we can!
Posted by: the face, grand hotel on 9:18am Wed 7 May 08
The Britten Norman Islander plane in the photo is used by the Parachute Regiment Free Fall display team. I won't argue with them!
The Britten Norman Islander plane in the photo is used by the Parachute Regiment Free Fall display team. I won't argue with them!
Posted by: Stan Parr, Pershore on 5:58pm Wed 7 May 08
I have not seen these planes, but I also wonder why they are cruising round over a city and not over open country - especially if they are "training" and might possibly crash.
For what are they training, exactly?
Bring back the Tiger Moth!
I have not seen these planes, but I also wonder why they are cruising round over a city and not over open country - especially if they are "training" and might possibly crash.
For what are they training, exactly?
Bring back the Tiger Moth!
Posted by: bibbly, worcester on 11:54am Thu 8 May 08
Noise is a part of modern life. The planes are less obtrusive than for example cars driven with loud music playing or reading about terrorism. Live and let live may be the resolution here! Personally I always enjoy the sight and sound of a low flying plane, especially when it just happens to be a military plane, something to do with protecting our national security. Imagine if Worcester was subjected to a terrorist attack. Would the same critics then say that the authorities failed to act?
Noise is a part of modern life. The planes are less obtrusive than for example cars driven with loud music playing or reading about terrorism. Live and let live may be the resolution here! Personally I always enjoy the sight and sound of a low flying plane, especially when it just happens to be a military plane, something to do with protecting our national security. Imagine if Worcester was subjected to a terrorist attack. Would the same critics then say that the authorities failed to act?
Posted by: Biggles, Worcester on 10:43pm Sun 11 May 08
I support the RAF, rather obviously, good luck to them.
If you've been daft enough to buy a house in Warndon villages, so close to the M5, I'd imagine aircraft noise would be a welcome relief from traffic noise.
I support the RAF, rather obviously, good luck to them.
If you've been daft enough to buy a house in Warndon villages, so close to the M5, I'd imagine aircraft noise would be a welcome relief from traffic noise.
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