Ice warning signs are ‘traffic hazard’ (From Worcester News)
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Ice warning signs are ‘traffic hazard’
10:20am Saturday 5th January 2013 in News By Tarik Al Rasheed
SIGN OF THE TIMES: A warning sign to motorists of ice on the road at Martley.
COUNCIL bosses have defended new road signs warning of ice, claiming they are an important additional safety measure and not health and safety gone mad, as one Worcester News reader has claimed.
Jerry Johns, of Clifton-upon-Teme, near Martley, got in touch with your Worcester News after spotting dozens of the new signs on the roadside around the county.
He said: “Is this yet another example of health and safety gone mad? Most folk round here know it’s winter and there is the occasional risk of ice.
“The signs themselves are more of a traffic hazard than any ice that may be on the road.”
Jon Fraser, customer and community manager for highways at Worcester-shire County Council, said the signs were introduced as an extra precaution in wintry weather and had been generally very well received.
“The safety of road users is extremely important, particularly during the winter months when ice is a potential hazard,” he said.
“For the first time, this year we’ve introduced ice warning signs as an additional precautionary measure to warn road users in areas where there is increased risk, such as surface run-off from fields.
“The response to the new signs has so far been very positive. The majority of drivers and pedestrians appreciate the extra warning these signs give in addition to the gritting that we undertake across the county “When roads are icy, I’d urge motorists to drive with caution, and never to assume it’s safe to travel at normal speeds even if they believe roads have been treated with grit.”
This week, Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin launched a crusade against unnecessary road signs.
In a letter to councils, Mr McLoughlin called on them to remove any old, confusing or ugly signs.
His campaign was backed by the Campaign to Protect Rural England, which branded the signs a forest of clutter.
Comments(57)
uptonX
says...
11:29am Sat 5 Jan 13
Redhillman
says...
11:31am Sat 5 Jan 13
CJH
says...
11:38am Sat 5 Jan 13
daned
says...
12:08pm Sat 5 Jan 13
If they have to cover themselves there are signs which can be turned over to be on or off.
Karl Hunderson
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12:16pm Sat 5 Jan 13
daned wrote:Obviously drivers would have to use their own common sense. The signs are intended to to mean that if its freezing or below there may be ice even if the road has been gritted because of the reasons. That seems to be a good idea.
If these signs are permanent what use will they be after drivers have passed them day in, day out when there has obviously been no ice.
If they have to cover themselves there are signs which can be turned over to be on or off.
CJH
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12:17pm Sat 5 Jan 13
Karl Hunderson
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12:20pm Sat 5 Jan 13
CJH wrote:Really? When I drive around in this country and abroad I see many permanent signs saying beware of fog or ice. I use my common sense. If its likely to be foggy or icy I take heed.
And the problem with leaving them there for long periods of time is that drivers will stop noticing them, like many other pointless traffic signs. Familiarity will breed comtempt.
CJH
says...
12:31pm Sat 5 Jan 13
Karl Hunderson wrote:And you need a sign to tell you that? If you are driving the same road every day (not when travelling on business or holiday on unknown roads) you will become immune to the messages.
CJH wrote: And the problem with leaving them there for long periods of time is that drivers will stop noticing them, like many other pointless traffic signs. Familiarity will breed comtempt.Really? When I drive around in this country and abroad I see many permanent signs saying beware of fog or ice. I use my common sense. If its likely to be foggy or icy I take heed.
itsallinthe locker
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12:53pm Sat 5 Jan 13
jovialcommonsense
says...
2:02pm Sat 5 Jan 13
All road signs are there for those that need them, if you don't need them someone else might.
Having said that, I do feel the country is cluttered with far too many signs.
martduke
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2:04pm Sat 5 Jan 13
Karl Hunderson
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3:35pm Sat 5 Jan 13
CJH wrote:CJH, our county's roads will be unknown to lots of people. You see they get into their cars and travel from other places. That's the point of roads.
Karl Hunderson wrote:And you need a sign to tell you that? If you are driving the same road every day (not when travelling on business or holiday on unknown roads) you will become immune to the messages.
CJH wrote: And the problem with leaving them there for long periods of time is that drivers will stop noticing them, like many other pointless traffic signs. Familiarity will breed comtempt.Really? When I drive around in this country and abroad I see many permanent signs saying beware of fog or ice. I use my common sense. If its likely to be foggy or icy I take heed.
CJH
says...
3:54pm Sat 5 Jan 13
Karl Hunderson wrote:But that's the point - you use your common sense and drive within road and weather conditions. What we don't need are signs appearing like weeds all over the place. It's distracting and mainly pointless. Since this 'temporary' sign went up how many times has that particular road been icy? Do the council come and take it away when it's not icy? Nope. And because it's temporary, what are the chances of it being nicked, knocked over or moved? And like a previous comment says - how much has it cost, and please can the council please print details of the people who have taken the trouble to contact them and say how lovely they are? Or do they mean by positive reaction, that no-one has bothered to say anything, which is much more likely. How much longer are these buffoons (and I mean the management and director buffoons, not the poor souls having to do the work, knowing full well their time and our money would be better utilised elsewhere) going to be allowed to continue without being called to account?
CJH wrote:CJH, our county's roads will be unknown to lots of people. You see they get into their cars and travel from other places. That's the point of roads.Karl Hunderson wrote:And you need a sign to tell you that? If you are driving the same road every day (not when travelling on business or holiday on unknown roads) you will become immune to the messages.CJH wrote: And the problem with leaving them there for long periods of time is that drivers will stop noticing them, like many other pointless traffic signs. Familiarity will breed comtempt.Really? When I drive around in this country and abroad I see many permanent signs saying beware of fog or ice. I use my common sense. If its likely to be foggy or icy I take heed.
topjock1972
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7:31pm Sat 5 Jan 13
Bet that person in Clifton would soon be crying about the lack of warning signs if he hit a patch of ice.
CJH
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8:14pm Sat 5 Jan 13
topjock1972 wrote:Well, give us the figures then please. Don't leave us in suspense.
The road signs are on high ground which can be a lot colder than the lower city and also in areas where there is no gritting in severe weather...... And yes they are a good thing!!!!!! Just look at the rta figures for the roads that these signs are on compared to the roads that don't use them Bet that person in Clifton would soon be crying about the lack of warning signs if he hit a patch of ice.
topjock1972
says...
9:13pm Sat 5 Jan 13
The reason this person is not moaning about the amount of flood signs on the roads is because he can see why they are there..... He can't see the ice and as the met office had forecast a winter with temps of -20c, worcester council took the precaution of putting ice signs on B roads that were prone to having freezing patches in the winter giving them the time to concentrate on roads in the county that are classed as accident black spots, like worcs-kiddy
batchelorboy
says...
10:34pm Sat 5 Jan 13
I for one think they are a very good idea. Being a motorcyclist, I already ride with extra care when I know there is a risk of ice and these signs have just prompted me to take even more care in those areas I ordinarily would never think to be an ice black spot.
Are the signs really hurting anyone?? I guarantee that if some unfortunate soul were to have an accident because of ice, on a road proven to be gritted sufficiently, someone would holler "Where were the warning signs!!". These signs certainly aren't traffic hazards!
Yes more money could be spent on other things like filling in pot holes - which are a bigger danger to me than ice.
Budweis-her
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11:16am Sun 6 Jan 13
saucerer
says...
12:22pm Sun 6 Jan 13
As for Jon Fraser, the words than come from this person constantly in the press are laughable, unfounded and short-sighted. As one of the posts said earlier, can he give examples which show that "The response to the new signs has so far been very positive. The majority of drivers and pedestrians appreciate the extra warning these signs"? May be a freedom of information request.
It is about time the overpaid and incompetent highways staff were accountable to the public otherwise money will continue to be squandered on stupid ideas. It is time to bring in the private sector to take control of things.
farmeralan1963
says...
1:56pm Sun 6 Jan 13
CJH wrote:Not even a magician can save this department. Everyone can see this department is full of buffoons.
Anyone taking bets on the Highways Dept recruiting a consultant to help improve their public image?
farmeralan1963
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2:04pm Sun 6 Jan 13
If water is running off fields, does this mean the highways department aren't doing their jobs properly and not clearing drains and ditches?
Talking about signs, what about these slippery road signs we keep seeing everyone in the County, especially after roads are resurfaced (which are few). Some of these signs have been in place for years. Does this suggest that roads are dangerous and that those that have been resurfaced have been done to an unsafe standard?
farmeralan1963
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2:08pm Sun 6 Jan 13
Redhillman
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3:19pm Sun 6 Jan 13
farmeralan1963 wrote:Can't say I am surprised that they are refusing to attend, which is a total disgrace. But they are cowards and if they can, they will try and avoid meeting and talking to the public because they're scared as well as knowing they've messed things up but don't want to admit their errors because they're too arrogant. I hope this meeting has a petition calling for those responsible for the roundabout changes to be sacked.
On a different story, a public meeting is being held on the 15th of this month to discuss the revised and dangerous Whittington roundabout. But guess what? Mr Fraser has informed me that his department are refusing to attend. How dare the highways department display such arrogance and ignorance and treat the tax payer with such utter contempt.
RobertR
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5:28pm Sun 6 Jan 13
itsallinthe locker
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6:40pm Sun 6 Jan 13
WilkoJ
says...
7:01pm Sun 6 Jan 13
itsallinthe locker wrote:All we ever hear from him, whether it be in the papers, radio or TV, are a lot of words and noise but very little substance. He's just a PR person on lots of money, just like the equally inept highway liaison engineers who I've dealt with.
The lack of comment from John Fraser, Customer and Community Manager whatever that is, speaks volumes.
WilkoJ
says...
7:10pm Sun 6 Jan 13
farmeralan1963 wrote:I contacted the highways people last week about this meeting, asking if they were due to turn up, but it seems my question has been answered. If they have decided to ignore the public, it's time we took things in to our own hands and start calling for heads to roll and name and shame these ignorant people. If this ignorance was displayed in the private sector, someone would have been sacked.
On a different story, a public meeting is being held on the 15th of this month to discuss the revised and dangerous Whittington roundabout. But guess what? Mr Fraser has informed me that his department are refusing to attend. How dare the highways department display such arrogance and ignorance and treat the tax payer with such utter contempt.
mr.meldrew
says...
8:04pm Sun 6 Jan 13
saucerer
says...
10:10pm Sun 6 Jan 13
mr.meldrew wrote:Couldn't agree more but public sector staff in councils fail to recognise that they are our servants, it's our money they spend and we pay their large salaries.
public servants should be accountable to the public.i.e. us....think maybe they cant claim expenses to attend that meeting ...any thoughts.
There's a point, with the meeting being held in Little Venice, I'd have thought council staff would have jumped at the chance to turn up to have a slap meal and some drinks and claim it all on expenses. Not to mention the overtime that will be claimed and travel expenses.
jovialcommonsense
says...
10:41pm Sun 6 Jan 13
It feels like you are all twitching at the noose thrown over the tree.
Constantly moaning and using derogatory language which would inflame any reasonable person.
one94
says...
8:54am Mon 7 Jan 13
uptonX
says...
8:55am Mon 7 Jan 13
reflector
says...
9:06am Mon 7 Jan 13
The sign is still there after six weeks or so, since when there has been no ice so that now I take little notice of it.
One other problem is that there are dozens of similar potential danger spots which have no such signs. If you sign only some hazards, are people not to conclude that the absence of a sign elsewhere means, that all is safe?
reflector
says...
9:13am Mon 7 Jan 13
One such example is the A38 through Wychbold which had a nice new surface only a few months ago but is now sprouting potholes on a daily basis. This must call into question the specification of the work and/or the way it was carried out and inspected. One hopes that those responsible are being taken to task and that it will be remedied at no cost to the taxpayer (but I am not holding my breath!).
dulon
says...
10:03am Mon 7 Jan 13
Would anybody from the WCC like to comment on this ?
We have counted over 200 signs between our rural village and the worcester city perimeter . The average motorist is blessed with a brain albeit some more capable than others. However the erection of temporary signs should mean temporary not 4 b...y years . The ice signs should be relevant to the prevailing conditions.
Guy66
says...
11:32am Mon 7 Jan 13
farmeralan1963 wrote:**** I thought you said balloons which would be ideal for a children's magician!
CJH wrote:Not even a magician can save this department. Everyone can see this department is full of buffoons.
Anyone taking bets on the Highways Dept recruiting a consultant to help improve their public image?
CJH
says...
12:47pm Mon 7 Jan 13
Guy66 wrote:Buffoons/balloons...
farmeralan1963 wrote:**** I thought you said balloons which would be ideal for a children's magician!CJH wrote: Anyone taking bets on the Highways Dept recruiting a consultant to help improve their public image?Not even a magician can save this department. Everyone can see this department is full of buffoons.
both full of hot air!
mrwrighty
says...
2:01pm Mon 7 Jan 13
reflector wrote:Specification what specification. I know a number of very good contractors that have all the required safety certification to do these jobs to the correct standards, however on numerous occasions they quote the work but are under cut by other companies that do not carry the same levels of certification. The departments are only interested in the bottom line cost, not the longevity of the repair. The companies I know are fully aware that the businesses that 'Win' the contracts are not up to scratch regarding working practises, but this does not seem to bother the department when they award the contracts, even though the department themselves dictate the levels of competancy and safety certification that is required by subcontractors.
Whilst on the wider subject of Worcestershire's roads, has anyone noticed the dreadful state of several recently resurfaced roads? One such example is the A38 through Wychbold which had a nice new surface only a few months ago but is now sprouting potholes on a daily basis. This must call into question the specification of the work and/or the way it was carried out and inspected. One hopes that those responsible are being taken to task and that it will be remedied at no cost to the taxpayer (but I am not holding my breath!).
RobertR
says...
7:10pm Mon 7 Jan 13
Every morning at 05.30 Pershore's road sweeper parked next to the pile of grit but completely ingored the loose gravel. Eventually it was cleared ,but, I don't know who by.
saucerer
says...
8:30pm Mon 7 Jan 13
RobertR wrote:Sounds like another classic example of the highways department doing an awful job from the outset and then washing their hands, not wanting to know anymore. And with these stories of roads failing after only a few years after being resurfaced just suggests that money is constantly being squandered on poor quality work.
Back in the summer the road from Pershore to the Lt.Comberton crossroads was resurfaced using gravel chippings.There was nothing wrong with the old surface but, after completion the contractor left all the loose chippings on the road.I'm a motorcyclist as well as a and car driver was nearly brought off after hitting a huge pile left at the Pensham junction. I called the highways dept who blamed the contractor.I called the contractor who said it was highways.I called Wychavon who said it was highways. I called the police who said that they would see if it was a hazard.
Every morning at 05.30 Pershore's road sweeper parked next to the pile of grit but completely ingored the loose gravel. Eventually it was cleared ,but, I don't know who by.
Is it not their job to monitor the standards of workmanship or have the highway "engineers" specified poor quality work from the outset?
CYNIC_AL
says...
8:48pm Mon 7 Jan 13
Redhillman
says...
9:20pm Mon 7 Jan 13
saucerer wrote:The only thing they can engineer are large salaries and incompetence!
RobertR wrote:Sounds like another classic example of the highways department doing an awful job from the outset and then washing their hands, not wanting to know anymore. And with these stories of roads failing after only a few years after being resurfaced just suggests that money is constantly being squandered on poor quality work.
Back in the summer the road from Pershore to the Lt.Comberton crossroads was resurfaced using gravel chippings.There was nothing wrong with the old surface but, after completion the contractor left all the loose chippings on the road.I'm a motorcyclist as well as a and car driver was nearly brought off after hitting a huge pile left at the Pensham junction. I called the highways dept who blamed the contractor.I called the contractor who said it was highways.I called Wychavon who said it was highways. I called the police who said that they would see if it was a hazard.
Every morning at 05.30 Pershore's road sweeper parked next to the pile of grit but completely ingored the loose gravel. Eventually it was cleared ,but, I don't know who by.
Is it not their job to monitor the standards of workmanship or have the highway "engineers" specified poor quality work from the outset?
Redhillman
says...
9:22pm Mon 7 Jan 13
CYNIC_AL wrote:Ha ha ha, very good. Thing is, you wouldn't be against them doing it.
Will the council be putting out "Wet" signs when it rains?
uptonX
says...
10:21pm Mon 7 Jan 13
Karl Hunderson
says...
10:49am Tue 8 Jan 13
uptonX wrote:Good idea. We could have a photo of the handful of contributors on here with a bee in their bonnet about the highways department all stood with their grumpy, know-it-all faces on and their arms folded.
So, how about a bit of action from the newspaper, opinion above is very clear. About time the Highways Department were called to account. We need "our" Worcester News to get on the case.
batchelorboy
says...
1:21pm Tue 8 Jan 13
CYNIC_AL wrote:How stupid!
Will the council be putting out "Wet" signs when it rains?
You can see rain, you can't see ice until it's too late.
So much slander within these comments! You think therefore you are...
uptonX
says...
7:54pm Tue 8 Jan 13
When the ice warning signs are still in place next August you can just hear their PR people saying they are out "in preperation for the winter".
Idiots, come on Worcester News, do something about it.
More Tea Vicar
says...
2:13pm Wed 9 Jan 13
As for these signs, I can kind of understand why they're there, and their presence doesn't bother me. But why not make them permanent, rather than the temporary one shown, at spots that are known to be ice-prone, same as cross-wind notices on bridges and high ground?
Audi Driver
says...
5:01pm Wed 9 Jan 13
topjock1972 wrote:Topjock1972
Each year in Worcestershire there are around 1,500 personal injury road traffic accidents. These accidents result in some 2,000 casualties the majority of which are on well maintained city roads, if you want breakdown of accidents then get in touch with worcester council or view there web site. The reason this person is not moaning about the amount of flood signs on the roads is because he can see why they are there..... He can't see the ice and as the met office had forecast a winter with temps of -20c, worcester council took the precaution of putting ice signs on B roads that were prone to having freezing patches in the winter giving them the time to concentrate on roads in the county that are classed as accident black spots, like worcs-kiddy
I didn't know that the A44 was a B road.... Plus have you seen the way the put the signes there?? the verge is too small so they place half of them on the road, right in front of a sharp bend.
These signs might be handy for people unfamiliar to these roads, but please put them somewhere sensible. And take them away when no longer needed. This includes the flood and "try your brakes" signs
DarrenM
says...
5:55pm Wed 9 Jan 13
The current approved highway code method in Worcestershire; seems to be drive up to a completely clear one in any lane you like, stop and wait for some cars to appear, then go round in any lane you like regardless of the exit you want before leaving without signalling. For bonus points try and straddle two lanes.
Redhillman
says...
6:44pm Wed 9 Jan 13
uptonX wrote:The utter incompetence and poor management of the highways department needs to be exposed, with staff named and shamed, as well as being accountable to the public, while we should have the power to ask staff to consider their positions when things go wrong, which is all too often.
Noticed today the Worcestershire Highways "New road layout" signs are still at the Wychbold M5 Junction 5 roundabout. That work was all finished sometime in 2010.
When the ice warning signs are still in place next August you can just hear their PR people saying they are out "in preperation for the winter".
Idiots, come on Worcester News, do something about it.
Can the WN not to the tax payer a favour and do an exposé on this department, with some investigative journalism. And it is high time public meetings are held so that we can all come face to face with these staff and put them on the spot, as at the moment they're hidden behind closed doors in their offices. Come on WN.
MulsanneChap
says...
10:06pm Wed 9 Jan 13
CJH
says...
10:16pm Wed 9 Jan 13
saucerer
says...
10:30pm Wed 9 Jan 13
farmeralan1963
says...
8:55am Thu 10 Jan 13
MrWXYZ
says...
12:34pm Thu 10 Jan 13
DarrenM wrote:Quality - although worryingly this is observational humour so what happens.
Could they put signs on roundabouts instead telling people how they work? The current approved highway code method in Worcestershire; seems to be drive up to a completely clear one in any lane you like, stop and wait for some cars to appear, then go round in any lane you like regardless of the exit you want before leaving without signalling. For bonus points try and straddle two lanes.
Add - if criticised blame the road layout and/or other users for not giving way to you at all times.
reflector
says...
4:38pm Thu 10 Jan 13
mrwrighty wrote:Pleased to see that a gang was at work in Wychbold this afternoon dealing with potholes.
reflector wrote:Specification what specification. I know a number of very good contractors that have all the required safety certification to do these jobs to the correct standards, however on numerous occasions they quote the work but are under cut by other companies that do not carry the same levels of certification. The departments are only interested in the bottom line cost, not the longevity of the repair. The companies I know are fully aware that the businesses that 'Win' the contracts are not up to scratch regarding working practises, but this does not seem to bother the department when they award the contracts, even though the department themselves dictate the levels of competancy and safety certification that is required by subcontractors.
Whilst on the wider subject of Worcestershire's roads, has anyone noticed the dreadful state of several recently resurfaced roads? One such example is the A38 through Wychbold which had a nice new surface only a few months ago but is now sprouting potholes on a daily basis. This must call into question the specification of the work and/or the way it was carried out and inspected. One hopes that those responsible are being taken to task and that it will be remedied at no cost to the taxpayer (but I am not holding my breath!).
However, unless someone gets to grips with the underlying problem of a badly constructed surface, they will be returning frequently.
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