Learn from experience in plans for roundabout (From Worcester News)

How come Clr Prodger never admitted his mistakes when he was responsible for Highways?

That's really bad news. Any budget available should be spent fixing the issues at Whittington which is now slower and much more dangerous than before.
Please keep us informed so we can do all we can to stop Highways making a similar mess at the Ketch.

Totally agree with both above comments, pity the councilor/s are not held to account for the huge gaffs made as it costs the taxpayer, we know who has messed it up but the plebs that are taxpayers are of no consequence are we?

What a waste of money! More inept decisions wasting our money.

They're just continuing to rearrange the deckchairs on the titanic.

I can see the reason for these upgrades to the roundabouts is probably to create a dual lane in the future but as there are no infinite resources the council has to do things in stages. That's my stab at the reason for the roundabout improvements which will be to ease congestion in the future.
However, I do agree that the people making the decisions never take responsibility when things go wrong, ie the county councillors who run the council

The highways department never ever learn from their mistakes,and the number of high profile gaffs over the years proves this. Yet, seemingly, they are allowed to get away with it time and time again, while it is the mug known as the tax payer who ends up suffering the consequences or putting things right at extra cost.

The problem is that there is nothing in place that allows highways staff to be come directly accountable and answerable to the public, so they are not only protected behind closed doors, but they are allowed to continue to deliver error strewn schemes but not become accountable or made to pay the price of their failings. I bet no one from the highways department has had to pay the price for the Whittington roundabout farce for example. In fact, they were probably rewarded for their utter incompetence. I would sincerely like to know who was responsible. Anyone have any ideas?

Redhillman wrote:
The highways department never ever learn from their mistakes,and the number of high profile gaffs over the years proves this. Yet, seemingly, they are allowed to get away with it time and time again, while it is the mug known as the tax payer who ends up suffering the consequences or putting things right at extra cost.

The problem is that there is nothing in place that allows highways staff to be come directly accountable and answerable to the public, so they are not only protected behind closed doors, but they are allowed to continue to deliver error strewn schemes but not become accountable or made to pay the price of their failings. I bet no one from the highways department has had to pay the price for the Whittington roundabout farce for example. In fact, they were probably rewarded for their utter incompetence. I would sincerely like to know who was responsible. Anyone have any ideas?

Redhillman, I am informed that the person who covers this area is Mr Fullee, a highways area engineer, and is therefore ultimately responsible.

Hang on, Prodger's name is very closely associated with the Newtown Road foul-up.

He's the last person who should be saying this.

The Ketch roundabout has been a disaster since it was opened in 1985. There were plans for peak hour traffic lights then and nothing was done. When the WCC experiment was done with traffic lights the timings were all wrong so the whole idea has now been written off.
When the County Council and its politicians get involved all that happens is chaos and wasted money. No planning; no forethought and no idea!!

I suspect the planning team who designed Whittington Road's new island have never tried to drive a car around it. The Slip roads are a farce in both directions. The one off to the west is set at such an angle that you cannot see what is coming around the roundabout so drivers take pot luck and hope the other motorist stops for them.

Ideally what is now needed at the Ketch are overpasses that take the main road traffic from the east and west over the roundabout and onto and from the Carrington Bridge and slip/feeder lanes off to the A39 north and south.
Perhaps the planning team and Mr Prodger should visit Swindon where they improved the access off the A419 to the M4 by building such a roundabout. The previous one was a similar nightmare to the Ketch. The new one now has fewer accidents; fewer delays and more traffic flow.

An sorry "farmeralan", but an officer of the council may be accountable to the council as the oversrching authority but the ultimate responsibility for the council lies with those who are elected by the people - the councillors.

Red Baron wrote:
The Ketch roundabout has been a disaster since it was opened in 1985. There were plans for peak hour traffic lights then and nothing was done. When the WCC experiment was done with traffic lights the timings were all wrong so the whole idea has now been written off.
When the County Council and its politicians get involved all that happens is chaos and wasted money. No planning; no forethought and no idea!!

I suspect the planning team who designed Whittington Road's new island have never tried to drive a car around it. The Slip roads are a farce in both directions. The one off to the west is set at such an angle that you cannot see what is coming around the roundabout so drivers take pot luck and hope the other motorist stops for them.

Ideally what is now needed at the Ketch are overpasses that take the main road traffic from the east and west over the roundabout and onto and from the Carrington Bridge and slip/feeder lanes off to the A39 north and south.
Perhaps the planning team and Mr Prodger should visit Swindon where they improved the access off the A419 to the M4 by building such a roundabout. The previous one was a similar nightmare to the Ketch. The new one now has fewer accidents; fewer delays and more traffic flow.

An sorry "farmeralan", but an officer of the council may be accountable to the council as the oversrching authority but the ultimate responsibility for the council lies with those who are elected by the people - the councillors.

Councillors may be responsible, but the delivery of schemes, which includes design and construction, lies with officers. So if it is Mr Fullee and his staff, then it seems they may be responsible for the problems at the Whittington island.

I do find the continuing incompetence emanating from so many highways staff is becoming very tiresome, to the point where it is part of everyday life in Worcestershire, where we all apparently have no choice but to grin and bear it. If this were the private sector, many people would have since been shown the door a long time ago, but it is apparent that ineptitude and continuing failure does not result in council staff being penalised, disciplined or dismissed. In fact they're rewarded by holding on to their jobs.

My suggestion is that if the highways department wish to show even a modicum of penance, they should finally hold an open public meeting, with those in charge attending.

farmeralan1963 wrote:

Redhillman wrote:
The highways department never ever learn from their mistakes,and the number of high profile gaffs over the years proves this. Yet, seemingly, they are allowed to get away with it time and time again, while it is the mug known as the tax payer who ends up suffering the consequences or putting things right at extra cost.

The problem is that there is nothing in place that allows highways staff to be come directly accountable and answerable to the public, so they are not only protected behind closed doors, but they are allowed to continue to deliver error strewn schemes but not become accountable or made to pay the price of their failings. I bet no one from the highways department has had to pay the price for the Whittington roundabout farce for example. In fact, they were probably rewarded for their utter incompetence. I would sincerely like to know who was responsible. Anyone have any ideas?

Redhillman, I am informed that the person who covers this area is Mr Fullee, a highways area engineer, and is therefore ultimately responsible.

Why don't you two just cut and paste a post you made 12 or 18 months ago - (they're all the same!) and save everyone the bother?

I echo the comments which say the highways department will never learn and that they continually deliver schemes which are ill conceived, not to mention poor value for money and often dangerous to motorists. Something has to be done, but as one post said, what can we do? It seems that we, the tax payer, have little direct control over highways staff, while councillors seem to have little control too.

farmeralan1963 wrote:

Redhillman wrote:
The highways department never ever learn from their mistakes,and the number of high profile gaffs over the years proves this. Yet, seemingly, they are allowed to get away with it time and time again, while it is the mug known as the tax payer who ends up suffering the consequences or putting things right at extra cost.

The problem is that there is nothing in place that allows highways staff to be come directly accountable and answerable to the public, so they are not only protected behind closed doors, but they are allowed to continue to deliver error strewn schemes but not become accountable or made to pay the price of their failings. I bet no one from the highways department has had to pay the price for the Whittington roundabout farce for example. In fact, they were probably rewarded for their utter incompetence. I would sincerely like to know who was responsible. Anyone have any ideas?

Redhillman, I am informed that the person who covers this area is Mr Fullee, a highways area engineer, and is therefore ultimately responsible.

No idea who Mr Fullee is but if he is responsible for this dangerous roundabout, requests should be made to reconsider his position within the council. We cannot let people make our roads more dangerous.

Worcester News, how about printing some of the above and asking Highways for comment - although really the only sensible and safe way forward is get rid of the lot of them as they have shown nothing but incompetence in recent years and their arrogant comments when questioned give little hope of any change.
Lets not wait for someone to be killed. Do something now !

Thinking about it, the delivery and competence of many council services are governed or have a regulator, such as ofsted for example, but seemingly highways does not. In the absence of a regulatory body, Worcestershire county council's highways staff will continue to get away with coming up with dim witted and dangerous schemes. I fear it will only be a matter of time before someone is seriously injured or worse as a result of something the highways people have done.

I suspect the highways dept. is ruled and regulated by many others as is the case with everything nowadays.
The Govt Transport Dept probably set national and local guidelines, and have a say in the budgets. County Council likewise, City Council likewise, Town planners also. Then to add to the confusion and purse strings the elected councillors have their say.
No wonder nothing ever works.

Why, " In consultation with local residents" ? What do they know about road construction and engineering? All we local residents want is a competent and capable highways team. Dismiss the apparently inept baffoons who devised the present scheme - that will go someway at least to preventing a recurrence. Far too few dismissals of the inept in public service.

Might I suggest the insurance companies are invited to any meeting to re-model the Whittington roundabout to detail exactly all of the recent accidents & show the real statistics, then seek compensation for increase in claims & losses they have suffered at the hands of the highways dept -
I drive 50,000 miles a year this is one of the last junctions on my way home and is by far one of the most confusing & dangerous hence why I approach it with eyes in the back of my head waiting for the bang !!!!!

Papermill wrote:
Might I suggest the insurance companies are invited to any meeting to re-model the Whittington roundabout to detail exactly all of the recent accidents & show the real statistics, then seek compensation for increase in claims & losses they have suffered at the hands of the highways dept -
I drive 50,000 miles a year this is one of the last junctions on my way home and is by far one of the most confusing & dangerous hence why I approach it with eyes in the back of my head waiting for the bang !!!!!

It would be interesting to see how many insurance claims have arisen from accidents caused by the new road layout, and what the total amount of these claims are. Then those highway officers responsible for this dangerous roundabout should cover the cost of these claims out of their own pocket. So if that means this Mr Fullee or whoever, then so be it.

I too find this roundabout one of the most dangerous anywhere in the country. In fact almost every new road scheme during the past few years in Worcester has resulted in a road becoming more dangerous.

I spoke to a friend who is an underwriter in the motor insurance industry and discovered that unfortunately it takes at least 2 years before an accident blackspot is officially recognised and to make matters worst most of the accidents at Whittington to date have been minor and so not reported to police. As a policy the insurance companies don't communicate with each other about this stuff but what he did say is they will use the accident information from there when working out premiums for their own customers and if you are local (WR5) then your motor insurance premiums will likely increase as a direct result of the accidents there.
I'm also a high mileage driver and find Whittington to now be one of the most dangerous junctions in the UK - to the point where if travelling south down the M5 and heading for Upton I often now go down to Junction 8, an extra 9 miles but much safer.

uptonX wrote:
I spoke to a friend who is an underwriter in the motor insurance industry and discovered that unfortunately it takes at least 2 years before an accident blackspot is officially recognised and to make matters worst most of the accidents at Whittington to date have been minor and so not reported to police. As a policy the insurance companies don't communicate with each other about this stuff but what he did say is they will use the accident information from there when working out premiums for their own customers and if you are local (WR5) then your motor insurance premiums will likely increase as a direct result of the accidents there. I'm also a high mileage driver and find Whittington to now be one of the most dangerous junctions in the UK - to the point where if travelling south down the M5 and heading for Upton I often now go down to Junction 8, an extra 9 miles but much safer.

i wonder what detail this goes down to - ie would it effect whittington residents or st peters as well, a bgi chunk of houses in worcester
Although any increase in accidents at the ketch would effect st peters area.

Having said that the change in slip road going to the ketch seemed to cause several accidents i saw in the months after, these reduced from what i saw. The number of cars exchanging insurance details at whittington has also reduced to what i have seen (small sample size i know) so maybe people are just learning to deal with the new road layout rather than pretend its the same as before

DEMRICS wrote:
I do find the continuing incompetence emanating from so many highways staff is becoming very tiresome, to the point where it is part of everyday life in Worcestershire, where we all apparently have no choice but to grin and bear it. If this were the private sector, many people would have since been shown the door a long time ago, but it is apparent that ineptitude and continuing failure does not result in council staff being penalised, disciplined or dismissed. In fact they're rewarded by holding on to their jobs.

My suggestion is that if the highways department wish to show even a modicum of penance, they should finally hold an open public meeting, with those in charge attending.

I wonder how many of the professional know-alls on here would attend such a meeting? My guess is the number would start and end with a zero.

MrWXYZ wrote:

uptonX wrote:
I spoke to a friend who is an underwriter in the motor insurance industry and discovered that unfortunately it takes at least 2 years before an accident blackspot is officially recognised and to make matters worst most of the accidents at Whittington to date have been minor and so not reported to police. As a policy the insurance companies don't communicate with each other about this stuff but what he did say is they will use the accident information from there when working out premiums for their own customers and if you are local (WR5) then your motor insurance premiums will likely increase as a direct result of the accidents there. I'm also a high mileage driver and find Whittington to now be one of the most dangerous junctions in the UK - to the point where if travelling south down the M5 and heading for Upton I often now go down to Junction 8, an extra 9 miles but much safer.

i wonder what detail this goes down to - ie would it effect whittington residents or st peters as well, a bgi chunk of houses in worcester
Although any increase in accidents at the ketch would effect st peters area.

Having said that the change in slip road going to the ketch seemed to cause several accidents i saw in the months after, these reduced from what i saw. The number of cars exchanging insurance details at whittington has also reduced to what i have seen (small sample size i know) so maybe people are just learning to deal with the new road layout rather than pretend its the same as before

"The number of cars exchanging insurance details at whittington has also reduced to what i have seen" This is one of the most bizarre comments I've seen for ages! Small sample size? Yes, I'd say so, unless you're there 24 hours a day, every day, and if people do actually exchange insurance details, and if you know for sure that's what they're doing and not just stopping to ask the way...still it gave me a laugh. Thanks for that :-)

Everybody seems to be missing the biggest point - that even if they did a perfect job on the Ketch roundabout and made the traffic totally free-flowing it wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference to traffic congestion in the evening peak - fortunately I don't have recent experience of the morning, so can't comment on that. Invariably the traffic is queued back from Powick roundabout heading West and from the Norton roundabout heading East. Seemingly most of the hold up at the latter is due to the Eastbound traffic having to stop for vehicles coming down the hill and turning right into St Peters - hence congratulations to the highways engineers for improving the flow of such right turning traffic. I can only assume they're wary of making another mess somewhere significant.

CJH wrote:

MrWXYZ wrote:

uptonX wrote:
I spoke to a friend who is an underwriter in the motor insurance industry and discovered that unfortunately it takes at least 2 years before an accident blackspot is officially recognised and to make matters worst most of the accidents at Whittington to date have been minor and so not reported to police. As a policy the insurance companies don't communicate with each other about this stuff but what he did say is they will use the accident information from there when working out premiums for their own customers and if you are local (WR5) then your motor insurance premiums will likely increase as a direct result of the accidents there. I'm also a high mileage driver and find Whittington to now be one of the most dangerous junctions in the UK - to the point where if travelling south down the M5 and heading for Upton I often now go down to Junction 8, an extra 9 miles but much safer.

i wonder what detail this goes down to - ie would it effect whittington residents or st peters as well, a bgi chunk of houses in worcester
Although any increase in accidents at the ketch would effect st peters area.

Having said that the change in slip road going to the ketch seemed to cause several accidents i saw in the months after, these reduced from what i saw. The number of cars exchanging insurance details at whittington has also reduced to what i have seen (small sample size i know) so maybe people are just learning to deal with the new road layout rather than pretend its the same as before

"The number of cars exchanging insurance details at whittington has also reduced to what i have seen" This is one of the most bizarre comments I've seen for ages! Small sample size? Yes, I'd say so, unless you're there 24 hours a day, every day, and if people do actually exchange insurance details, and if you know for sure that's what they're doing and not just stopping to ask the way...still it gave me a laugh. Thanks for that :-)

Stopping to ask the way?! Now that is a stupid comment...... driving into someone at a junction to stop so that you can ask them the way
Also if you are there 24 hrs a day every day you would witness the accident rather than needing to witness the aftermath of insurance details being exchanged?!

Stopping to ask the way?! Now that is a stupid comment...... driving into someone at a junction to stop so that you can ask them the way
Also if you are there 24 hrs a day every day you would witness the accident rather than needing to witness the aftermath of insurance details being exchanged?!
.
Sorry should have made my sarcasm more obvious...

CJH wrote:
Stopping to ask the way?! Now that is a stupid comment...... driving into someone at a junction to stop so that you can ask them the way Also if you are there 24 hrs a day every day you would witness the accident rather than needing to witness the aftermath of insurance details being exchanged?! . Sorry should have made my sarcasm more obvious...

So if you those comments were sarcasm then your post was a bit pointless as you would have actually been agreeing with me, after saying it was a bizarre comment (unless of course the bizarre comment bit was also sarcasm)