Support for UKIP has ‘gone through the roof’ (From Worcester News)

UKIP is an ideal vote when the EU elections come up.

For Council or National voting, they really have no sound policies that will benefit the voters.

So beware of the siren calls.

Labour have got us into this mess,the Torys are just looking after No1 and seem so out of touch,the Libdems are like headless chickens so why not UKIP.No other party seems to want or be able to stop this countrys slide.And all the other parties say about them is that they have racist views,total rubbish,they are standing up for our interests.

They have my vote

Mr Farage will make an appearance at the Guildhall on Wednesday, April 3 from 7pm and the public can attend for free

I may even go just to heckle him or throw a shoe at him.

I'll be definitely voting for UKIP from now on!

UKIP are for people who don't think the Tories are nasty enough.

And pronstar (aka pratstar) is for people who don't think any of the political parties are nasty enough.

pronstar wrote:
UKIP are for people who don't think the Tories are nasty enough.

Amazing observation from someone who has obviously not read the UKIP maifesto.

Never allow facts to ruin a good prejudice!

Be under no illusions, Farage seems eloquent and plausible. He is good at criticism, but UKIP is very poor on having any positive policies to do with the REAL issues affecting the UK. A UKIP Worcestershire council would be a disaster.

They are a VERY right-wing party whose real issue is spreading apocryphal myths and stirring up hatred towards people who have a real right to be in the UK. Old England is gone, we are an integrated, multi-cultural society where there are generally good relations between different ethnic groups. So, lets start by accepting the situation we are in.

According to Farage, there will be hundreds of thousands of Bulgarians, Romanians and East European Gypsies arrivng in the UK. Utter nonsense, if those people cannot feed themselves, then they are hardly likely to have fares to reach the UK.

Our population problem is one of aging, by 2023 over 25% of the UK population will be over 60. We need more young people to support and care for us. The USA and Australia regularly advertise for immigrants aged under 35. If people bring skills, work and enterprise to the UK, then that is positive. Two of the world's more successful economies were founded on immigration, Australia and the USA.

As for the EU, yes it does need huge reform. Europe is recovering. Being in the EU gives us unrestricted access to the world's largest free trade economy and nearly 50% of UK exports go there and many Worcestershire businesses export to EU nations. We would not be assured of guaranteed access to European free trade if we left. Working people need to realise that most of their employment rights some from the EU. Being in the EU does not mean that foreigners run our country. The UK is the second most powerful economy in Europe and we should be driving and shaping the EU, not running away from it.

The UK was clamouring for membership of the European Community from 1957 onwards, because our economy was not growing and the integrated European Economy was growing at 5% per year.

UKIP supporters need to think very hard. Where will our export trade come from? The usual answer I hear is "the Commonwealth" most of the Commonwealth are developing countries. How many Worcestershire jobs would be lost? The CBI and Institute of Directors all support continued EU membership.

We can't go back to some fantasy Britain based on the values of the 1940's.

Europeanist65 wrote:
Be under no illusions, Farage seems eloquent and plausible. He is good at criticism, but UKIP is very poor on having any positive policies to do with the REAL issues affecting the UK. A UKIP Worcestershire council would be a disaster.

They are a VERY right-wing party whose real issue is spreading apocryphal myths and stirring up hatred towards people who have a real right to be in the UK. Old England is gone, we are an integrated, multi-cultural society where there are generally good relations between different ethnic groups. So, lets start by accepting the situation we are in.

According to Farage, there will be hundreds of thousands of Bulgarians, Romanians and East European Gypsies arrivng in the UK. Utter nonsense, if those people cannot feed themselves, then they are hardly likely to have fares to reach the UK.

Our population problem is one of aging, by 2023 over 25% of the UK population will be over 60. We need more young people to support and care for us. The USA and Australia regularly advertise for immigrants aged under 35. If people bring skills, work and enterprise to the UK, then that is positive. Two of the world's more successful economies were founded on immigration, Australia and the USA.

As for the EU, yes it does need huge reform. Europe is recovering. Being in the EU gives us unrestricted access to the world's largest free trade economy and nearly 50% of UK exports go there and many Worcestershire businesses export to EU nations. We would not be assured of guaranteed access to European free trade if we left. Working people need to realise that most of their employment rights some from the EU. Being in the EU does not mean that foreigners run our country. The UK is the second most powerful economy in Europe and we should be driving and shaping the EU, not running away from it.

The UK was clamouring for membership of the European Community from 1957 onwards, because our economy was not growing and the integrated European Economy was growing at 5% per year.

UKIP supporters need to think very hard. Where will our export trade come from? The usual answer I hear is "the Commonwealth" most of the Commonwealth are developing countries. How many Worcestershire jobs would be lost? The CBI and Institute of Directors all support continued EU membership.

We can't go back to some fantasy Britain based on the values of the 1940's.

A bunch of factoids, none of which stand up to close examination, but are the standard "factoids" pedalled by those collaborating in the great EU scam.

A "factoid" is defined by the Compact Oxford English Dictionary as “an item of unreliable information that is repeated so often that it be-
comes accepted as fact”.

However, I prefer the Wikipedia description. "A factoid is a questionable
or spurious (unverified, false, or fabricated)
statement presented as a fact, but with no
veracity."

No doubt we will be discussing each of the factoids quoted above in more detail at some time, but in none of them do the actual facts support the "factoid".

Between now and the May County elections the EU gravy train supporters will be continually repeating these factoids, as they are now very, very worried about the awaking of the UK population and their support for the UK Independence Party.

Malaky, good to have your opinion. Fact about me: Yes, I am worried about UKIP, they have the potential to be very damaging to jobs and good community relations in this country. We are in the EU for reasons of free trade and collective security. With respect.

Europeanist65 wrote:
Malaky, good to have your opinion. Fact about me: Yes, I am worried about UKIP, they have the potential to be very damaging to jobs and good community relations in this country. We are in the EU for reasons of free trade and collective security. With respect.

First factoid debunked: we are in the EU because we were lied to on a grande scale. A previous generation believed the lies of Heath and his fellow conspirators when they said we were joining a common market. It was, as you state, just for trade.

From day one the agreement referred to ever-closer political union. And that is what we have had. Most of our laws are now made in the EU and Parliament is just a local council doing the bidding of the centralist Brussels bureaucracy.

It turned out to be about the wild-eyed federalists of Europe creating a United States of Europe, in which the UK is just a small, bit-player. We object and we are told to shut up and go away - they know best!

Second factoid: Our security has been guaranteed for 60 years by NATO, the EU has no military wing yet, but they are trying to organise an EU military force as part of their ongoing designs for the United States of Europe.

Two factoids debunked, but many more to go, I guess.

pronstar wrote:

Mr Farage will make an appearance at the Guildhall on Wednesday, April 3 from 7pm and the public can attend for free

I may even go just to heckle him or throw a shoe at him.

prostrate - you would only miss! Just as you do daily with your disconnected comments on most local issues.

UKIP - like the BNP but just a bit cuddlier

Europeanist65 wrote:
Malaky, good to have your opinion. Fact about me: Yes, I am worried about UKIP, they have the potential to be very damaging to jobs and good community relations in this country. We are in the EU for reasons of free trade and collective security. With respect.

The only thing to be afraid of is fear itself.

When we leave the EU they will still want to sell their goods to us. We buy more from them than the other way around, and so only the most fanatical EU federalists would want to punish us by imposing trading sanctions. It would be cutting of their noses to spite their faces.

We will be able to scrape the EU enforced VAT on UK goods and have a flat tax which will immediately encourage UK growth.

We will be able to to trade with the rest of the world without the punitive EU Tariffs that make the UK uncompetitive in certain countries.

Once free of those punitive EU tariffs and restrictions, we can increase our trade with the Commonwealth free trade area where it is estimated that there is $1.8 Trillion of trade and $100 Billion of foreign investment available annually to the UK.

We owe a huge debt of gratitude to our Queen for having maintained and nurtured the Commonwealth for the last 40 years of disinterest from UK politicians, who were more concerned about jumping on the EU gravy train.

Its bad enough that our scroungers refuse to work as they get paid to stay at home.

But when huge numbers of EU immigrants move in - taking our jobs, school places, free access to our NHS, houses, and of course our benefits then please remind me what is the benefit of being in the EU?

We're not in USA, or the Asia-pac, but we import and export goods to these parts of the world...

All the UK governments seem helpless to stem this flow into our country, so no wonder people are turning to UKIP (good or bad...)

The Doosra wrote:
UKIP - like the BNP but just a bit cuddlier

Such a trite comment based solely on ignorance and prejudice does you no credit.

But, why ruin a good prejudice with facts?

BrownSauce wrote:

The Doosra wrote:
UKIP - like the BNP but just a bit cuddlier

Such a trite comment based solely on ignorance and prejudice does you no credit.

But, why ruin a good prejudice with facts?

I look forward to UKIP being put under pressure to perform in the next general election - where their Janet and John economic policies will be put under scruitiny like never before.

Security doesn't just depend on armed forces, it first depends on having the same values as neighbouring countries: democracy, free-access trade markets, human rights, and the rule of law. The EU enshrines these, I think some correspondents need to consult with the CBI and IoD to realise how much profit and how many jobs depend on European trade. The world is not a huge free trade zone, nor likely to be for decades. You have to enquire as to why the CBI, IoD and world's leading economies want us to stay in the EU?

Our desire to be in Europe, initially the EC, goes back to the 1952 Schumann Plan and European Coal and Steel Treaty of 1957 which created unrestricted free trade on a number of industrial products. Increasing and wider free trade in Europe meant the UK was isolated from economic growth that was happening in the free trade area. Hence the clamour of Macmillan, Heath and THATCHER to join, and stay in Europe, whatever form it took.

As GB gave up its empire and the USA and USSR became the world's post-war superpower, our power and influence in the world plummeted. After we joined Europe in 1973 and our power and influence in the world increased again and our membership of the EU is a significant factor in making us the world 6th most powerful economy and second most powerful in Europe.

The EU can work well if it is reformed. The current problems stem from the fact that the EU has two levels of economic development, and it was wrong to presume that countries such as Portugal and Greece could offer the same living standards and have similar economic performance to UK and Germany. For the EU to work, principally as a free trade economy, you need the free movement of goods, capital and people around the European Union.

Norway, outside the EU, complains that it would like more influence on European Free Trade Area (a separate body form the EU) which UKIP claims will be our continued gateway to Europe, but cannot exercise the influence because decision making in EFTA is made by EU nations.

The long-term solution will be three grades of membership: associate, intermediate and core. The UK should not bail out the profligate economies of nations such as: Greece and Portugal etc.

If, God forbid, there is a referendum on the EU, the British people will not take the rash risk of leaving. If you respect the British Constitution, as I deeply do, then we must realise that we do live in a state of popular sovereignty, but in one of Parliamentary sovereignty. Cameron's approach of reform and renegotiation is an intelligent and expedient way forward.

The only Janet & John economics are those of the last two governments.

The less said about Labour bankrupting us, the better.

The current government financial policies are bemusing most observers, as they flounder along, having now clumsily lost our AAA status.

UKIPs economic policies are influenced by the views of Prof. Tim Congdon who is an economist and businessman, who has for over 30 years been a strong advocate of sound money and free markets in the UK’s public policy debates. He is often regarded as the UK’s leading ‘monetarist’ economist and as one of its most influential economic commentators.

Just use Google to find out more detail. UKIP will not be found wanting when that time comes.

Incidentally, there is a lot to be said for Janet & John, it is their sort that hold the country together and will be voting in the forthcoming elections. It is easy for you to mock their suburban innocence, but they are the people that UKIP represents, not "Eton/Harrow rich-boys" or those growing up in "chattering-class", Marxist soirees!

I'm certainly no rich boy, my family was too busy surviving and hard up to have marxist soirees. (Many UKIPers often have a strange tendancy to make derogatory cracks about those who oppose UKIP)

I've researched and monitored UKIP closely over the years.

There are lots of good people supporting UKIP, I know some, but I can't go there. I just don't believe what they are espousing.

My view of UKIP supporters is that they are mainly Tories (nothing wrong with that) who feel that their party is being watered down, and UKIP after offering them their true faith.

My other friends who are Labour supporters are standing on the sidelines in glee while UKIP destroys the Tories for them. The Guardian today states that UKIP will do for the Tories what the SDP did for Labour in the 1980s. Divided and destroyed them for a generation.

UKIP do have a range of policies which address the major concerns of huge numbers of the British people - concerns which the two main parties and the Lib-Dems refuse to contemplate dealing with.
In effect they are telling us we are wrong to have these concerns and they know best - so more and more we turn to UKIP.
If Cameron gets his reforms and repatriation of powers this may change - but that is a big "if" and I wonder if he really in his heart of hearts wants to do it.
Nigel Farage has accused him of not being a Conservative and often it looks like he may be right.

leader Nigel Farage has planned a visit to Worcester in April

Will this be a flying visit?

Nice to hear form Doogie, and his opinion is certainly one from the heart, as well as his mind. Well put. I also think there is a growing feeling across society of people feeling powerless and Doogie is right, people have concerns and the politicos are just not listening, or offering anything but more of the same.

DermotItis wrote:

pronstar wrote:

Mr Farage will make an appearance at the Guildhall on Wednesday, April 3 from 7pm and the public can attend for free

I may even go just to heckle him or throw a shoe at him.

prostrate - you would only miss! Just as you do daily with your disconnected comments on most local issues.

If I'm disconnecting with you that can only be a good thing

Omicron wrote:
And pronstar (aka pratstar) is for people who don't think any of the political parties are nasty enough.

Aren't you More Tea Vicar's b*tch?

Europeanist65 wrote:
I'm certainly no rich boy, my family was too busy surviving and hard up to have marxist soirees. (Many UKIPers often have a strange tendancy to make derogatory cracks about those who oppose UKIP)

I've researched and monitored UKIP closely over the years.

There are lots of good people supporting UKIP, I know some, but I can't go there. I just don't believe what they are espousing.

My view of UKIP supporters is that they are mainly Tories (nothing wrong with that) who feel that their party is being watered down, and UKIP after offering them their true faith.

My other friends who are Labour supporters are standing on the sidelines in glee while UKIP destroys the Tories for them. The Guardian today states that UKIP will do for the Tories what the SDP did for Labour in the 1980s. Divided and destroyed them for a generation.

Thank you for telling me what I believe in, but I was already aware of that! However, this article is about UKIP and Farage, and I don't believe that it mentioned you at all.

When the Conservative Party no longer holds conservative views, and you cannot slip a cigarette paper between the Lib Lab Con Parties, what is the problem in voting for UKIP as the Peoples party, the only party that listens any more? The LibLabCon parties are now all middle-ground "Democratic" parties, with a distaste for democracy, or we would have had a referendum a decade ago!

Europeanist65 wrote:
The Guardian today states that UKIP will do for the Tories what the SDP did for Labour in the 1980s. Divided and destroyed them for a generation.

As you are a newbie, I wondered where your infinite factoids and general verbosity were coming from. Now I see that you are a Guardian reader I understand ;0)

pronstar wrote:

leader Nigel Farage has planned a visit to Worcester in April

Will this be a flying visit?

Have you ever considered auditioning for the The Wheeltappers and Shunters Social Club?

BrownSauce wrote:

pronstar wrote:

leader Nigel Farage has planned a visit to Worcester in April

Will this be a flying visit?

Have you ever considered auditioning for the The Wheeltappers and Shunters Social Club?

Have you ever considered Farage is a joke of a man let alone a politician.

Europeanist65 wrote:
Security doesn't just depend on armed forces, it first depends on having the same values as neighbouring countries: democracy, free-access trade markets, human rights, and the rule of law. The EU enshrines these, I think some correspondents need to consult with the CBI and IoD to realise how much profit and how many jobs depend on European trade. The world is not a huge free trade zone, nor likely to be for decades. You have to enquire as to why the CBI, IoD and world's leading economies want us to stay in the EU?

Our desire to be in Europe, initially the EC, goes back to the 1952 Schumann Plan and European Coal and Steel Treaty of 1957 which created unrestricted free trade on a number of industrial products. Increasing and wider free trade in Europe meant the UK was isolated from economic growth that was happening in the free trade area. Hence the clamour of Macmillan, Heath and THATCHER to join, and stay in Europe, whatever form it took.

As GB gave up its empire and the USA and USSR became the world's post-war superpower, our power and influence in the world plummeted. After we joined Europe in 1973 and our power and influence in the world increased again and our membership of the EU is a significant factor in making us the world 6th most powerful economy and second most powerful in Europe.

The EU can work well if it is reformed. The current problems stem from the fact that the EU has two levels of economic development, and it was wrong to presume that countries such as Portugal and Greece could offer the same living standards and have similar economic performance to UK and Germany. For the EU to work, principally as a free trade economy, you need the free movement of goods, capital and people around the European Union.

Norway, outside the EU, complains that it would like more influence on European Free Trade Area (a separate body form the EU) which UKIP claims will be our continued gateway to Europe, but cannot exercise the influence because decision making in EFTA is made by EU nations.

The long-term solution will be three grades of membership: associate, intermediate and core. The UK should not bail out the profligate economies of nations such as: Greece and Portugal etc.

If, God forbid, there is a referendum on the EU, the British people will not take the rash risk of leaving. If you respect the British Constitution, as I deeply do, then we must realise that we do live in a state of popular sovereignty, but in one of Parliamentary sovereignty. Cameron's approach of reform and renegotiation is an intelligent and expedient way forward.

Europeanist65 wrote:
A UKIP Worcestershire council would be a disaster.It is obvious that you are an outsider, otherwise you would not make such a fatuous remark.

The people of Worcestershire are only too aware of how much better it could be. We have had to stand by and see countless failed projects costing millions of pounds.

We have seen a lack of vision, and leadership in so many areas. Education immediately stands out as an example, we get one of the lowest levels of central government support in the UK. But nothing is ever done about it!

We have needed a ring-road completed around Worcester for decades, the council have not even attempted to obtain any government funding as they "don't think that we need a new bridge and joined up ring-road". Everyday the City grinds to a halt at rush time, sometimes the Southern link is stuck for hours at a time.

We could discuss the situation of the NHS, but that would make this letter too long.

I am certain that a UKIP Worcestershire council can perform at least as well as what we have at present.

agree with brown sauce. ukip couldnt possibly be any worse than the incompetent morons who are in charge of the council.there again,neither could the kids from leapfrog nursery....

I'm no Guardian reader - what sauce!

It's probably the European Echo.
I have to come in after the previous barrage of euro rubbish. Yes we trade with Europe but they also desperately need our markets as much if not more so now. For those, and I am one of them who moan about our useless politicians, and who are totally dis-satisfied with the UK just look across the water at what is on offer.
The only ones who wish for a capitulation by the UK (but I really mean ENGLAND) are those like the MEP's who have their snouts well into the Brussels money trough. And that goes for the business people who are not looking out for the interests of the UK but filling their own wallets.
Yes we need a trading relationship with the EU but not when we have to spend £1.50 to gain £1.
So pop back to your propaganda since it won't wash here. And yes I also will be voting UKIP, since Labour won't give us a vote, and the Cameron slight of hand promise to encourage another term in office (which they won't get) won't wash with the voter in the street. I want back what politicians have been giving away without the consent of the people, MY COUNTRY.

Old England is gone, we are an integrated, multi-cultural society where there are generally good relations between different ethnic groups. So, lets start by accepting the situation we are in.I am an immigrant into this country; how dare you presume to speak for me!

There is not another country in the world with a higher degree of tolerance for other ethnic groups than the UK, and that started with the baby-bloomers - the old-f*rts that you are mocking in your earlier post. They have it right.

Me and my family are settled here and have committed everything to building our lives here and have assimilated and accepted British values.

However, there are no jobs available for over 1 million of our young people, so it is just plain lunacy to import another wave of immigrants at the moment.

I have joined UKIP and I will be standing for election in the County elections in May. The Lib/Lab/Con parties do not speak for me or mine any more.

Kick-Knack, I'm seriously pleased that you and your family have settled well. I wish you all well in your future here. I hope more are afforded the same chances and tolerance you have experienced. I do not speak for anyone except myself and have not referred to or implied anyone being an "old ****"

Good also that you are standing n a democratic election.

If you look at the link pagehttps://www.gov.
uk/erdf-regional-gui
dance-west-midlands

you will see the amount of EU money whiuch flows to the West Midlands, including to Worcestershire from the European Regional Development Fund.
You will see that the West Midands universities received over £80 million.

Also councils received money to help projects for poor and vulnerable people.

Presumably, UKIP councillors won't want any of this for their constituents.?

Many of the forums and projects are corridors to European business and markets.

Enoch Powell once said "The nation is fed and clothed on the profits of British industry." If we make it more difficult for industry to trade in the world's largest free trade area, then our national prosperity will decline.

UKIP offers no certainties about Britain's export future.

At the moment UKIP is coming up with sound-bites that resonate with an increasing number of both Tory AND Labour supporters. UKIP is no longer a one-issue party, but I doubt at the moment whether they have the organisation to actually make a significant impact at a general election - it's more straightforward at a bye-election. But in the meantime it's fun to read the insults flying on this forum.......not!

Absoluetly no insults flying from Europeanist65. Some UKIPers have this strange habit of making derogatory comments about anyone who has a different view to them.

If UKIP's influence extends to the 2015 general election, Labour will hardly need to get out of bed to achieve a heavy win.

Europeanist65 wrote:
Kick-Knack, I'm seriously pleased that you and your family have settled well. I wish you all well in your future here. I hope more are afforded the same chances and tolerance you have experienced. I do not speak for anyone except myself and have not referred to or implied anyone being an "old ****"

Good also that you are standing n a democratic election.

If you look at the link pagehttps://www.gov.

uk/erdf-regional-gui

dance-west-midlands

you will see the amount of EU money whiuch flows to the West Midlands, including to Worcestershire from the European Regional Development Fund.
You will see that the West Midands universities received over £80 million.

Also councils received money to help projects for poor and vulnerable people.

Presumably, UKIP councillors won't want any of this for their constituents.?

Many of the forums and projects are corridors to European business and markets.

Enoch Powell once said "The nation is fed and clothed on the profits of British industry." If we make it more difficult for industry to trade in the world's largest free trade area, then our national prosperity will decline.

UKIP offers no certainties about Britain's export future.

I find your condescending attitude quite outrageous and obnoxious. I don't need inexperienced juveniles like you congratulating me on doing what I have every right to do in this country, which is still free in spite of the "ever closer political union", which has been applied in Brussels as "ever-less Democracy"!

With regard to all of this money that the EU "GIVES" us - don't you know anything worth knowing? It is our money that they are paying back to us after they have stolen vast sums for other purposes. That is why the EU auditors have not signed of their accounts for 18 years, and why in December the accountants announced that another £1.5billion had gone missing (meaning it has been stolen!).

Once we leave the EU and have control of our own revenue, don't you think that the newly independent UK government will continue paying out these sums? And the mafia won't take any of it!

Silly boy!

Europeanist65 wrote:
Absoluetly no insults flying from Europeanist65. Some UKIPers have this strange habit of making derogatory comments about anyone who has a different view to them.

If UKIP's influence extends to the 2015 general election, Labour will hardly need to get out of bed to achieve a heavy win.

I think that you will find that it is irritation with the never-ending factoids and spin that the Europhiles use to perpetuate their EU gravy train!

However, after re-reading the posts above it is obvious that you are a juvenile who is cutting and pasting things that you have read elsewhere. Please stop it.

Calm down Knick-Knack! All my own work, not cut and paste ! (Honest) My creaking joints somehow tell me I'm not a juvenille.


Sorry you can't express your views without flinging insults . Now that is juvenile!


You will keep reading my pro-Europe views. It's called democracy.

More than a quarter of a million Bulgarians and Romanians have already come to Britain over the past five years – even before the jobs market is fully opened to them. These are National Insurance figures.

This means that Europhile claims that only a few thousand will emigrate to the UK is just more factoids as Malaky calls them. I call them blatant lies!

The fact that none of the political parties will attempt to do anything to stop this invasion and insist that we are making a fuss about nothing is beyond normal comprehension.

Milliband even went so far as to stating that the Labour party would be ensuring that these migrants were paid proper wages when they take the jobs that could have gone to our own people, regardless of origins, already here.

What about my children who are out of work?

Don't we matter any more?

If there is not enough work for these migrants then they will just claim benefits and drag us even further down the road to ruin.

These posts on here today have convinced me finally, and I will be voting for UKIP at the County elections. The Lib Lab Con parties are no longer listening to the majority of the UK people.

Cameron even seems to be ashamed to be associated with people the likes of me when he contemptuously talks about people not "moving with the times", After nearly 40 years of voting Conservative... never again!

I note Carl Humpries name is mentioned in the article.

Is this the same Carl Humphries who was in the SDP in the 1980's, who I seem to remember later joined the Tory's and is now leading Worcester UKIP?

Carl has every right to alter his allegiance and I'm not knocking it - but it does prove that people modify their views as time goes by - so maybe Cameron and Farage can find a way of working together.

Because rest assured, as the SDP prevented Labour gaining office for a political generation, UKIP will split the vote enough to prevent the Tory's seeing office for 20 years, unless they come to some kind of pact.

Another point on the UKIP debate and their stand against open doors immigration from the EU.

Government keeps talking about "net" immigration is falling. This disguises what is really happening ... if a million arrive from non-indigenous cultures and a million and one indigenous British leave that makes net immigration a very small sounding 1, but fundamentally changed the culture of the Country to that of the incomers.

Whether that is good or bad is for personal judgement, but will they and their descendants assimilate into the British culture or change it beyond recognition.

Fear of such change is one reason why so many people are following the UKIP agenda.

Remember that the next EU step is to introduce Turkey - a state that has recently shifted to a much more authoritarian non-secular design, and whose population looking to move westwards dwarfs that of Bulgaria and Romania.

Unless the Conservative's and UKIP work together they will not be in a position to stop it.

Here here the true Brits are rumbling. Good to hear support for this country and of course UKIP could easily take the place of the LIB/LAB/TORY/DEMS by holding the working majority, and we wouldn't see further sell outs to Europe.
Born and lived in the UK for 75 years I have seen the immigrants who came here, were welcomed, and have integrated and hugely contributed to the economy. Some stayed some went back home or to other countries.
In fact they are also voicing an opinion about too much immigration into this small island.
I attend meetings across the west midlands and frequently hear Asians and Black people say they are proud to be British. So we are more multicultural than some would want us to believe and something I strongly support.
So of course I realise that England cannot be as in the old days, and who would want that.
What I want back are the powers that our so-called politicians have given away to Europe. I read that during Gordon Browns political death throws he quietly slipped over to Brussels to sign away yet another treaty. He is a Scot though, and was probably paving the way for Scotland's independence and wish to join the EU gravy train.
If Scotland wanted to gain their independence they should extend the vote for the English to have a vote, it would be JOB DONE.

Jabbadad echo's so many of us who are nearer the end than the beginning of life.

The immigration problem is not about colour, race or religion or even us being biggots - it is simply that too many people are coming to the UK to use the resources of the Country without having contributed anything to it.

This view is not helped by those who come to steal, as is witnessed by the gangs robbing cash points and cloning cards, pickpockets in Oxford Street and so on. Everyone's scared to say this for fear of being called racist (and hit by report this post and deleted) - it's not, it's simply observation of CCTV and police crime shows, news reports and witnessing it first hand.

What makes an Eastern European make the career move to come to Britain in order to sell Big Issue in Pershore High Street? It ain't the sunny weather.

Quite frankly we might ideally want to be welcoming, but we've run out of money, resources and indeed, goodwill.

From the New Statesman:

Farage boasted on The Andrew Marr Show (20 January 2013) that “Ukip is the only UK party to explicitly ban BNP members from joining”. What party, other than a party whose policies are attractive to such organisations, would need to do that?

Pretty much sums it up really.

pronstar wrote:
From the New Statesman:

Farage boasted on The Andrew Marr Show (20 January 2013) that “Ukip is the only UK party to explicitly ban BNP members from joining”. What party, other than a party whose policies are attractive to such organisations, would need to do that?

Pretty much sums it up really.

And if UKIP had not done it, then you would have condemned them for wanting to attract ex-BNP members.

Pretty much sums it up really.

Pretty well sums up pronstar.

For those of you taken in by UKIPs policies: of course they will make them sound attractive and viable - it's clever marketing and propaganda designed to appeal to certain people's fears. BUT! It's the policies they would unleash if they got into power that concerns me. And every time I hear Farage's name I automatically think of 'farrago' - a confused collection or mixture of things. And Farage is now in the urban dictionary, with (amongst other meanings I can't repeat here) as 'Any character with the charisma of a damp rag and the appearance of a low-grade bank clerk'.

pronstar wrote:

Omicron wrote: And pronstar (aka pratstar) is for people who don't think any of the political parties are nasty enough.

Aren't you More Tea Vicar's b*tch?

For goodness sake pratstar grow up and start acting like a responsible "adult" instead of sitting there with your finger up your backside and your mind in neutral.
You may consider this remark abusive but that's all you seem to understand. Sensible debate does not appear to be in your vocabulary.

if ukip split the tory vote and it means it sends the tories spinning into a political wilderness for 20 years...good!

somehow though i doubt it as ukip do not have either the organisational structure or policies to do anything meaningful but moan and be a protest vote. oh yes, to them the eu is bad but they dont mind having their mep snouts in the feeding bowl do they?

what's worse, they have a full menu of right wing pro privatisation policies that if served up will leave everyone cold as it all favours big business and not the british peoples interests they pretend to champion.

wake up!

Amusing to see the comments directed to Pronstar...
Seems to be an argumentative so and so who just wants to provoke a reaction.

Must be an easy form of entertainment for a sad empty life. Funny there is no substance to any of the comments. All they do is drag people off topic.

Most people who vote UKIP have little idea of their policies, apart from abandoning Europe and tightening Immigration. All people see is a one man party and that's frightening. Their manifesto is not one for a whole nation and it makes us sound like a Third World country looking for a future. The solutions offered seem great but inadequately thought through - UKIP wants to spend money that the country simply does not have.No one has a spinning wheel spinning thread into gold. Proposals on income taxation, the abolition of green taxes, National Insurance changes, no cuts in police, doubling of prison places,scrapping of tuition fees, restoring student grants, increasing defence spending - all these are to be financed by cuts to regulations and quangos.There are no detailed economic plans for any of these policies - perhaps the finance will just turn up when the other 3 major parties have not managed to find it.?Totally bizarre and naive economic posturing. Who are the intelligent spokespeople on all these policies with a background in economics and world finance? There is no armoury of those with professional political experience. They are all total amateurs who appear to have been dragged off the street. Anyone who votes UKIP is voting for the "Please Everyone and have a Lollipop" party. It is the refuge of the dreamer and of those who want to climb on any protest bandwagon. If you want to see a similar movement, look at Germany in the 1930's. Now that's scary and we aren't bankrupt - yet!

nantgarw wrote:
Most people who vote UKIP have little idea of their policies, apart from abandoning Europe and tightening Immigration. All people see is a one man party and that's frightening. Their manifesto is not one for a whole nation and it makes us sound like a Third World country looking for a future. The solutions offered seem great but inadequately thought through - UKIP wants to spend money that the country simply does not have.No one has a spinning wheel spinning thread into gold. Proposals on income taxation, the abolition of green taxes, National Insurance changes, no cuts in police, doubling of prison places,scrapping of tuition fees, restoring student grants, increasing defence spending - all these are to be financed by cuts to regulations and quangos.There are no detailed economic plans for any of these policies - perhaps the finance will just turn up when the other 3 major parties have not managed to find it.?Totally bizarre and naive economic posturing. Who are the intelligent spokespeople on all these policies with a background in economics and world finance? There is no armoury of those with professional political experience. They are all total amateurs who appear to have been dragged off the street. Anyone who votes UKIP is voting for the "Please Everyone and have a Lollipop" party. It is the refuge of the dreamer and of those who want to climb on any protest bandwagon. If you want to see a similar movement, look at Germany in the 1930's. Now that's scary and we aren't bankrupt - yet!

Totally agree - for those who are considering voting for UKIP, please see:

http://www.independe
nt.co.uk/news/uk/pol
itics/special-report
-what-voters-should-
know-about-ukip-8517
997.html

and see if you can make sense of their policies!

pronstar wrote:

Mr Farage will make an appearance at the Guildhall on Wednesday, April 3 from 7pm and the public can attend for free

I may even go just to heckle him or throw a shoe at him.

In the interests of free speech and tolerance, Pronstar?

You really do show that the authoritarian threat to civil liberties and free speech comes from the left.

Europeanist65 wrote:
Malaky, good to have your opinion. Fact about me: Yes, I am worried about UKIP, they have the potential to be very damaging to jobs and good community relations in this country. We are in the EU for reasons of free trade and collective security. With respect.

But being in the EU doesn't actually guarantee any of those things, and you don't give any facts to back up your assertions about the 'potential damage' - probably because the only reason you 'know' about it is because it's what you've heard often enough in the media.

A quote from UKIP peer and former party leader Lord Pearson:

"The Muslims are breeding ten times faster than us. I don't know at what point they reach such a number we are no longer able to resist the rest of their demands."

Farage on, of all things, Lap Dancing:

“...Don’t have the time these days, but I used to go to them. Like it or not, they are a fact of life. You are talking about normal behaviour there. Everyone does it.”

Senior UKIP member Dr Julia Gasper, after having just claimed that some homosexuals prefer sex with animals:

“As for the links between homosexuality and paedophilia, there is so much evidence that even a full-length book could hardly do justice to the ­subject.”

Nantgarw writes, Totally bizarre and naive economic posturing. Who are the intelligent spokespeople on all these policies with a background in economics and world finance?
Let's hope not the same experts from the other party's who have left us in the mire time and time again.
You could take any man off the streets and they couldn't make a bigger mess than previous governments while filling the pockets of their main party sponsers.
What ever the comments by Labour / Tory/ and LIB Dem supporters, if we manage to get a referendum on Europe, UKIP will have done their job.
Since the other crabs won't give us that.

It's interesting to read contributions from people committed to other Party's of both left and right - scared to death of another player in the game that they think is exclusively for them.

When the SDP was formed those same types of voices sounded, saying much the same thing. The SDP changed the face of British politics, changed the Labour Party beyond recognition and is now in Government.

(It is often forgotten that the Liberal Democrats are actually the SDP with the old Liberal Party tacked on - not the other way around.)

The favorite opponents jibe was "they don't have any policies". The SDP fell into the trap of setting up policy groups and writing policies on every topic under the sun. Of course nobody was really very interested - but they played into the hands of their opponents and wasted huge amounts of resources on it.

UKIP need to plough their own farrow, stick to what they believe in - which is a right of centre agenda - and argue their case. If the media will only pick up on one person, that is not UKIP's fault, that is an indictment on the state of the British media - in particular the BBC. There are other voices in UKIP including elected MEP's and Councillors (there will be a lot more after May) who could be invited to speak.

And to the man who said he wanted to go and see Farage just to heckle and throw things - show some respect for a view you don't agree with and argue your case rather than just abuse.

Hitler and Stalin beat up their opponents to silence them. In Britain we do something extraordinary - we listen to the arguments then we vote.

Omicron wrote:

pronstar wrote:

Omicron wrote: And pronstar (aka pratstar) is for people who don't think any of the political parties are nasty enough.

Aren't you More Tea Vicar's b*tch?

For goodness sake pratstar grow up and start acting like a responsible "adult" instead of sitting there with your finger up your backside and your mind in neutral.
You may consider this remark abusive but that's all you seem to understand. Sensible debate does not appear to be in your vocabulary.

Omicron - I don't think you and I necessarily agree on everything, but we can debate our differing views, and maybe agree to differ.

I suspect with Pronstar, you are flogging a dead horse.

Keith B wrote:
Another point on the UKIP debate and their stand against open doors immigration from the EU.

Government keeps talking about "net" immigration is falling. This disguises what is really happening ... if a million arrive from non-indigenous cultures and a million and one indigenous British leave that makes net immigration a very small sounding 1, but fundamentally changed the culture of the Country to that of the incomers.

Whether that is good or bad is for personal judgement, but will they and their descendants assimilate into the British culture or change it beyond recognition.

Fear of such change is one reason why so many people are following the UKIP agenda.

Remember that the next EU step is to introduce Turkey - a state that has recently shifted to a much more authoritarian non-secular design, and whose population looking to move westwards dwarfs that of Bulgaria and Romania.

Unless the Conservative's and UKIP work together they will not be in a position to stop it.

I don't think the Tories and UKIP can work together. UKIP opposes the LibLabCon consensus. I suspect there are Tories who would feel at home within UKIP, but so would others. According to Channel 4

'A Populus poll done on the eve of the election showed that 17 per cent of people who said they would vote Ukip backed the Tories in the last election in 2010.

Some 11 per cent said they had voted Lib Dem and 10 per cent had previously supported Labour.

The Survation poll is also cited by Ukip as evidence that they are attracting large numbers of non-voters. The results suggest that a significant number – 15 per cent – did not vote at all in the last election.'


Basically, it's only because so many on the left have had the wool pulled over their eyes, and failed to realise that immigration is actually a right-wing policy, and the EU a big business community's dream, that they think opposing both is 'right wing'.

Leaving the EU and able to have a cigarette with a pint - don't care about the rest of it, they've got my vote.

Dear Jabbadad. The nightmare scenario.
And verily it came to pass that the headless chickens voted for Nige in the Euro elections in their millions and many UKIP were elected. We told Europe to F.... off and we said we would get out of that dreadful club. Even more turkeys voted for Christmas and Nige won the General Election and formed a government with a Cabinet of - Ooooh can't remember their names now. Never heard of them. Think a lot of them used to be in a party called the BNP that had disappeared. Soon the populist policies came in and the coffers were emptied and Moodys put us down to XXX- then all the unemployed had to mend the roads and build the railways as that was what the UKIP economists said we had to do . The rich deserted the country in their droves ( filthy traitorous swine , that's no loss ),but we had come out of Europe so Nige was really happy, hiding the news that our trade figures had fallen through the floor and he had no answer to that except to say that we would trade with Gaza, North Korea and Iran instead. And the thousands of Romanians and Bulgarians hiding like rats in the sewers of England, not to mention all the other illegal immigrants taking all our jobs, were hunted down by the UKIP special forces called the Gutsarpo, put on cattle wagons down to Dover and sent to other countries, whether they wanted them or not.
Sorry, just woken up and it was only a very bad dream. And my little 6 year old grandson came in and said, " There's a man called Nigel on the television. Grandad, why does he go on the telly wearing no clothes? " Out of the mouths of babes.

nantgarw wrote:
Dear Jabbadad. The nightmare scenario.
And verily it came to pass that the headless chickens voted for Nige in the Euro elections in their millions and many UKIP were elected. We told Europe to F.... off and we said we would get out of that dreadful club. Even more turkeys voted for Christmas and Nige won the General Election and formed a government with a Cabinet of - Ooooh can't remember their names now. Never heard of them. Think a lot of them used to be in a party called the BNP that had disappeared. Soon the populist policies came in and the coffers were emptied and Moodys put us down to XXX- then all the unemployed had to mend the roads and build the railways as that was what the UKIP economists said we had to do . The rich deserted the country in their droves ( filthy traitorous swine , that's no loss ),but we had come out of Europe so Nige was really happy, hiding the news that our trade figures had fallen through the floor and he had no answer to that except to say that we would trade with Gaza, North Korea and Iran instead. And the thousands of Romanians and Bulgarians hiding like rats in the sewers of England, not to mention all the other illegal immigrants taking all our jobs, were hunted down by the UKIP special forces called the Gutsarpo, put on cattle wagons down to Dover and sent to other countries, whether they wanted them or not.
Sorry, just woken up and it was only a very bad dream. And my little 6 year old grandson came in and said, " There's a man called Nigel on the television. Grandad, why does he go on the telly wearing no clothes? " Out of the mouths of babes.

It's quite revealing that you choose a dream sequence over facts to back your argument. I've often thought the pro-EU arguments weren't entirely based on reality.

When you have nothing to say , say anything that means nothing eh nantgarw.

pronstar wrote:
Senior UKIP member Dr Julia Gasper, after having just claimed that some homosexuals prefer sex with animals:

“As for the links between homosexuality and paedophilia, there is so much evidence that even a full-length book could hardly do justice to the ­subject.”

.....and Gaspar was forced to resign as head of her local branch, with the party condemning her views. Over time, the nut cases get weeded out.

Do you think that some members of the three main parties don't hold eccentric and objectionable views?

The Doosra wrote:
UKIP - like the BNP but just a bit cuddlier

The BNP's policies are national socialist, positioned more on the Left. Reportedly they once marketed themselves as "the Labour party your parents voted for".

UKIP is a libertarian democratic party drawing support from Conservative (as seen in the Midlands and South), LibDem (as seen in Eastleigh) and Labour voters (as seen in the North), as well as people who have not voted for years.

Labour, Conservatives and the Lib Dem's are all shades of social democrats, "managing the country" in line with EU requirements.

UKIP offer a real choice now and people are voting for them on that basis.

Mary79 wrote:
if ukip split the tory vote and it means it sends the tories spinning into a political wilderness for 20 years...good!

somehow though i doubt it as ukip do not have either the organisational structure or policies to do anything meaningful but moan and be a protest vote. oh yes, to them the eu is bad but they dont mind having their mep snouts in the feeding bowl do they?

what's worse, they have a full menu of right wing pro privatisation policies that if served up will leave everyone cold as it all favours big business and not the british peoples interests they pretend to champion.

wake up!

Mary,

You can peddle the 'protest vote' line as much as you wish, but it doesn't make it true. If a large minority of the Eastleigh vote came from people who haven't even voted for 15-20 years, it means UKIP are offering people something they haven't heard in a long while: common-sense policies.

UKIP do not favour big business. Quite the contrary in fact. Their business policies specifically target SME's through NI reform and changes to employment law.

The tax-avoiding big corporations would not be best pleased with UKIP reforming the tax code. Once simplified, the harder it would be for them to not pay their tax. These large corporations comfortably within the EU structure, twisting regulation to their own benefit and diminishing the prospect of challenge from smaller, more vigorous companies. Their malign influence over the unaccountable EU bureaucracy is a story that has been underplayed in the media. The big corporations stifle competition, and UKIP aim to free up the market from these monopolistic entities.

Bismarck wrote: The tax-avoiding big corporations would not be best pleased with UKIP reforming the tax code

The UKIP tax 'policy', for want of a better word, is to merge income tax with national insurance and to scrap employers' NI contributions.

How will this not please big corporations?

Bismarck wrote:

pronstar wrote:
Senior UKIP member Dr Julia Gasper, after having just claimed that some homosexuals prefer sex with animals:

“As for the links between homosexuality and paedophilia, there is so much evidence that even a full-length book could hardly do justice to the ­subject.”

.....and Gaspar was forced to resign as head of her local branch, with the party condemning her views. Over time, the nut cases get weeded out.

Do you think that some members of the three main parties don't hold eccentric and objectionable views?

Bismarck wrote: Over time, the nut cases get weeded out

Just like ukip council candidate Geoffrey Clark who was suspended after claiming all babies with disabilities should be aborted.

The Doosra wrote:
UKIP - like the BNP but just a bit cuddlier

UKIP, the party that keeps on giving

The outgoing chairman of Ukip in Bristol has backed controversial removal centres for illegal immigrants saying there should be "one in every town."

"These holding centres would be like prisons with unlocked doors, then after they've all been used and we've got rid of all the immigrants then we could turn them into actual prisons."

http://www.huffingto
npost.co.uk

Ooops didn't mean to quote the Doorsa there, although I do like his comment.

I would have added "...and with sharper suits"

UKIP are like Nazis in suits.

A party for Paranoid morons, masquerading as Little Englanders...

Davros wrote:
UKIP are like Nazis in suits.

A party for Paranoid morons, masquerading as Little Englanders...

I thought they were supposed to actually BE Little Englanders...

I note that voices of the left go in to name calling while Bismark and Alfred argue a case.

As a floating voter, which one will influence me most?

Keith B wrote:
I note that voices of the left go in to name calling while Bismark and Alfred argue a case.

As a floating voter, which one will influence me most?

I think it was Cameron who called them all lunatics, something he has never retracted, and nor should he as it's the one thing I can agree with him on.

Although according to UKIP he's a social democrat rather than a conservative. That's how extreme this lot are Keith. Still want to vote for them? Go right ahead, it's a nice feeling to come third or fourth I'm sure.

UKIP founder Professor Alan Sked recently stated that the party he launched in 1993 had become:

"extraordinarily right-wing"

and is now devoted to

"creating a fuss, via Islam and immigrants. They've got nothing to say on mainstream issues."

pronstar wrote:

Keith B wrote:
I note that voices of the left go in to name calling while Bismark and Alfred argue a case.

As a floating voter, which one will influence me most?

I think it was Cameron who called them all lunatics, something he has never retracted, and nor should he as it's the one thing I can agree with him on.

Although according to UKIP he's a social democrat rather than a conservative. That's how extreme this lot are Keith. Still want to vote for them? Go right ahead, it's a nice feeling to come third or fourth I'm sure.

You think the fact that Cameron says something makes it true?

More to the point, you don't seem to be dealing with the actual issue. UKIP is anti-EU and anti-immigration.

You might disagree with that point of view, though it seems pretty mainstream. Attempting to portray those widely-held opinions as somehow beyond the pale seems pretty pointless, really.

Which party do you actually support, by the way?

pronstar wrote:

Keith B wrote:
I note that voices of the left go in to name calling while Bismark and Alfred argue a case.

As a floating voter, which one will influence me most?

I think it was Cameron who called them all lunatics, something he has never retracted, and nor should he as it's the one thing I can agree with him on.

Although according to UKIP he's a social democrat rather than a conservative. That's how extreme this lot are Keith. Still want to vote for them? Go right ahead, it's a nice feeling to come third or fourth I'm sure.

Clearly not reading what you see ....... I said "as a floating voter" to which suddenly it's translated into me voting for somebody who will come 3rd or fourth, like it's some kind of football league table. I'll vote on belief, not on where the candidate I vote for will come in the election.

Actually, as a floating voter I will listen to the arguments (not the insults), weight up the candidates - I tend to vote for people before Party's - and cast my vote accordingly.

In fact I'll put my money where my mouth is and reveal that I voted for the Labour man as PCC because he clearly had the best intellect and was best suited for the job, I voted for an independent in the last Council elections - again the best man - and would have voted Liberal in the last General Election but they failed to canvass or even leaflet me, while the Tory turned up was approachable and argued his case - he got my vote.

In the past I've traveled back from London just to vote in a Parish Council election, which was worthwhile as the chap I supported got in by one single vote and has proved to be an excellent community representative.

I campaigned in the AV campaign for a change in the electoral system, but accept the Country didn't want that change.

It's called democracy and it's not like supporting a football club where you support the shirt whoever wears it and never change your allegiance.

Nobody should ever take my voting intention for granted ... which is more and more becoming the view of the majority of the British people.

By the way ..... I know the Labour Party hate him now but actually I thought Tony Blair was a great Prime Minister and voted for his Party in 1997 and then at subsequent elections.

Now that really could annoy Pronstar because Blair really was a Social Democrat.

UKIP is well-disposed towards Israel. Lib Dem David Ward makes remarks widely interpreted as anti-semitic about 'the Jews' on Holocaust Memorial Day.

Pronstar, so you would agree that Labour are a very suspect organisation because of MP for Huddersfield Barry Sheerman complaining about being an MP for that town, and "not Gdansk" and criticising the Campden Food Company at Victoria Station for not employing English staff?

Wheeling out examples of a few racist, homphobic etc individuals from an organisation and trying to claim that the whole party is like that is desperate.

Well so many ideas / opinions / wishes / wild accusations, no wonder the politicians in their comfort zones wrapped up in party dogma don't want AV voting. Having been a floating voter all my voting life I strongly support AV since this would be the closest we ever came to democracy, and all the politicians would have to work for their votes.
And I also support compulsory voting, as in Australia , even with it's little quirks, but we do see politicians locked into what is good for Australia.
I have first and second generation family over there and they are proud to be associated with Britain but they are fully behind Australia as their mother country. And what wonderful words from their Prime minister when she said "This is Australia, if you want to come to live here, you learn our mother tongue, You follow our laws, you work, If you don't do all these things you can leave as quick as you came. Don't those words belong here?
Yes of course they do and then we could rid ourselves of the parasite legal beavers who claim £Billions in legal aid to fight against the laws of this country.

Oh How nice would it be to return to the good old days of individual European states. When everyone got along and competed fairly with each other and sorted their disagreements out with some level headed diplomacy by Civil Servants and ministers. I mean that didn't do anyone any harm did it - THE GOOD OLD DAYS!

The EU has kept Europe at peace!

I'm beginning to wonder if Jabbadad is actually me in disguise !!!!!!!!!!! I could have written his posting .... including the Australian bit.

(In fact my nephew was nominated as Young Australian of the year in 2012 and for some time worked directly for former PM Kevin Rudd. The Aussie Labour Party is VERY protectionist regarding immigration and their boarders.)

I can't support AV - Look at the Police Commissioner - the bloke that lost gets elected,
One man, one vote worked perfectly well for about a thousand years.

AV's a scam - if you want to elected why not publish polices to make the majority vote for you?

The police commissioner elections were a complete political farce, and should not be held up as anything else.
They could have been more credible if there had been a minority level of votes that had to be achieved for a result.
And of course AV really needs to be supported by compulsory voting.
For anyone to say what we have is good must have no experience of the corruption where in some reported instances 40+ votes were registered from one address, and the postal vote is abused by Councillors or party workers collecting the envelopes from multiple accommodation and sheltered housing, when this is totally illegal unless that person is registered to assist in a particular vote, in the case of inability to register and post their own vote.
And of course there is intimidation or instruction, difficult to prove but quite active among some communities. So is what we have okay when we look at the resulting motley crews that get elected just because they wear a particular badge?.

Bismarck wrote:
Pronstar, so you would agree that Labour are a very suspect organisation because of MP for Huddersfield Barry Sheerman complaining about being an MP for that town, and "not Gdansk" and criticising the Campden Food Company at Victoria Station for not employing English staff?

Wheeling out examples of a few racist, homphobic etc individuals from an organisation and trying to claim that the whole party is like that is desperate.

I agree they're all a shower of sh*t pal, but UKIP just attract the very worst.

I have long advocated doing away entirely with the party political system as a way to govern. I personally have no affiliation to any political party.

IsmellBull wrote:
Oh How nice would it be to return to the good old days of individual European states. When everyone got along and competed fairly with each other and sorted their disagreements out with some level headed diplomacy by Civil Servants and ministers. I mean that didn't do anyone any harm did it - THE GOOD OLD DAYS!

The EU has kept Europe at peace!

No, it hasn't. Nato has.

I would absolutely agree that the EU's forerunner organisations were a great way of bringing the original members together, and eradicating the possibility of war between them.

But that was a long time ago, a different organisation, and different circumstances.

What really kept the peace through the years was the existence of Nato, protecting western Europe from the Soviet bloc, and the fact that west European countries became free market social democracies.

If the EU disappeared tomorrow, Sweden and Spain, Finland and France, and Ireland and Italy would not go to war against each other.
If the EU continues, however, it could actually cause unrest within and between its members.

Jabbadad says the current system is corrupt and gives examples, but I'm failing to see how those very same examples couldn't be the same for AV? Would corruption suddenly decrease?

In the only UK election where we did use AV he says that shouldn't count? So is the argument AV is great when you agree with the outcome?


and I agree with the above about NATO, we created it to keep the French Up, the Germans Down, and
The Russians Out

DarrenM wrote:
Jabbadad says the current system is corrupt and gives examples, but I'm failing to see how those very same examples couldn't be the same for AV? Would corruption suddenly decrease?

In the only UK election where we did use AV he says that shouldn't count? So is the argument AV is great when you agree with the outcome?


and I agree with the above about NATO, we created it to keep the French Up, the Germans Down, and
The Russians Out

No electoral system is perfect, neither ours nor PR, for example. As they say, it's the worst thing possible, apart from everything else.

I think we should value the good things about what we've got, but be aware that systems need to evolve to deal with developments.

What is clear right now in the UK is that this country is pretty good in many ways. That's why so many people are so willing to emigrate here, why people seek 'asylum', whether genuine or not, here.

But the political class is out of touch with the electorate on many key issues, and people are increasingly tired of the LibLabCon parties, who are virtually indistinguishable on subjects such as Europe and immigration.

It's not surprising that UKIP is on the rise.

pronstar wrote:

BrownSauce wrote:

pronstar wrote:

leader Nigel Farage has planned a visit to Worcester in April

Will this be a flying visit?

Have you ever considered auditioning for the The Wheeltappers and Shunters Social Club?

Have you ever considered Farage is a joke of a man let alone a politician.

If I had to pick between a joke of a man and a bitter twisted specimen who never says anything good about anyone, uses bad language and enjoys being abusive, and is continuously aggressive, illogical and infantile to everyone - then it would be Farage over pronstar every time.

IsmellBull wrote:
Oh How nice would it be to return to the good old days of individual European states. When everyone got along and competed fairly with each other and sorted their disagreements out with some level headed diplomacy by Civil Servants and ministers. I mean that didn't do anyone any harm did it - THE GOOD OLD DAYS!

The EU has kept Europe at peace!

The EU has kept inefficient French farmers in the way they have become accustomed for 40 years, in spite of French governments promises to change things. That is the only thing that we could not have achieved alone.

We have squandered hundreds of billions on this inefficient, Britain-hating organisation and the sooner we stop the better.

Here Here . Like when they were dragging our meat off the lorries at the docks and setting fire to them while the French police and Government stood and watched.
What a Nation !!!!

knick-knack wrote:

pronstar wrote:

BrownSauce wrote:

pronstar wrote:

leader Nigel Farage has planned a visit to Worcester in April

Will this be a flying visit?

Have you ever considered auditioning for the The Wheeltappers and Shunters Social Club?

Have you ever considered Farage is a joke of a man let alone a politician.

If I had to pick between a joke of a man and a bitter twisted specimen who never says anything good about anyone, uses bad language and enjoys being abusive, and is continuously aggressive, illogical and infantile to everyone - then it would be Farage over pronstar every time.

knick-knack wrote: If I had to pick between a joke of a man and a bitter twisted specimen who never says anything good about anyone, uses bad language and enjoys being abusive, and is continuously aggressive, illogical and infantile to everyone - then it would be Farage over pronstar every time.

It's clear that everything that I've posted about Ukip represents the unpalatable truth for you and a few of the usual suspects here and this is why you resort to this inept attempt at insulting me.

Anyone with a shred of intelligence can see straight through Ukip's hollow promises as well as their thinly veiled xenophobia.

We need some highly skilled individuals, who actually know what there doing to present us with reliable statistics that clearly demonstrate how the economics of the country will be affected should we stay in the EU or should we leave the EU. They should then ensure this is presented to the general public so it can be easily digest the facts and allow them to make a well informed decision.Then I woke up!

This media, fame hungry, political merry-go-round where nobody really has any idea whats is going on is a joke. Focusing on immigration and riding on the back of public opinion to increase there own popularity is quite unethical of UKIP. It's only a small part of the financial ties we have to the EU and it's a topic likely to culminate in an increase in racial hatred. This is why the other parties are stagnant on this issue they understand the damage focusing on this can do, UKIP on the other hand have nothing to lose.

I propose we deport all the politicians who realistically are of no use to us whatsoever, and replace them with academics who's only interests are compiling facts and figures to answer the questions and doubts the politicians base there policies on.

The exception to this rule is Boris who we keep for pure comedy value.

Jabbadad wrote:
Here Here . Like when they were dragging our meat off the lorries at the docks and setting fire to them while the French police and Government stood and watched.
What a Nation !!!!

These are our best friends and allies. How dare you criticise them!

We have joined a club that hates us. Just listen to what they say about us on the web.

Just get us out of this bizarre "club", who are asset stripping us. There is a whole Commonwealth out there who think that the uk is ok!

A number of correspondents have been knocking UKIP for pursuing their agenda. Like the comment from Ralph which said ........ "Focusing on immigration and riding on the back of public opinion to increase there own popularity is quite unethical of UKIP."

Isn't that what democracy is about ... representing public opinion? Isn't being popular the way you amass votes? You can only be popular if you are saying what others are thinking! UKIP are simply putting forward policies they believe in - it's the voters choice as to whether they feel they can support those policies, beliefs or gut instincts.

It isn't unethical ... it's politics.

Just like the way the Tory's look after their friends in the City or in the Shires. Is that unethical - no, that is what they are there for and if enough people believe that their best interests lie with a successful financial and landed sector then they will win the election. The Tory's believe that there's nothing wrong with being rich and successful and quite ethically ask people to share that belief.

On the other hand Labour have a more collective social outlook. Is it ethical of Labour getting votes by representing those with limited income - of course it is. Or by winning an election to rule in England when they are only kept in power by the electorate of Scotland and Wales.


Or Tony Blair having a stated policy to allow immigration on the grounds that the majority of those immigrants will vote for his Party. (Actually no - that was not ethical)

How ethical were the Liberals in pulling out of supporting boundary changes when actually fair voting is one of the major planks they stand on (in fact boundary changes would have lost them many seats).

Contributors need to put up arguments to counter UKIP, not just throw insults at them, or like Pronstar to threaten them or like the little girl on Question Time last night to simply spit bile at them and call them discusting.

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pronstar wrote:

knick-knack wrote:

pronstar wrote:

BrownSauce wrote:

pronstar wrote:

leader Nigel Farage has planned a visit to Worcester in April

Will this be a flying visit?

Have you ever considered auditioning for the The Wheeltappers and Shunters Social Club?

Have you ever considered Farage is a joke of a man let alone a politician.

If I had to pick between a joke of a man and a bitter twisted specimen who never says anything good about anyone, uses bad language and enjoys being abusive, and is continuously aggressive, illogical and infantile to everyone - then it would be Farage over pronstar every time.

knick-knack wrote: If I had to pick between a joke of a man and a bitter twisted specimen who never says anything good about anyone, uses bad language and enjoys being abusive, and is continuously aggressive, illogical and infantile to everyone - then it would be Farage over pronstar every time.

It's clear that everything that I've posted about Ukip represents the unpalatable truth for you and a few of the usual suspects here and this is why you resort to this inept attempt at insulting me.

Anyone with a shred of intelligence can see straight through Ukip's hollow promises as well as their thinly veiled xenophobia.

It's probably clear in your head, pronstar. But in the real world outside your bedroom, things are different.

I think my point was is that politics as a general rule is unethical, the facts and figures provided by all political parties are notoriously biased or just untrue.

It makes it almost impossible to make a well informed decision.

It concerns me greatly what the constant debate on immigration will do to the general public's perception of foreign nationals and ultimately there behavior towards them. It's safe to say that if you have more than half a brain it won't change your judgement. The problem is that not everyone has more than half brain!!

I have no answers nor counter arguments only concerns for the safety of human beings.

Should an angry mob of people(probably with a very low IQ between them), walk down the street and find someone they perceive to be an immigrant. Do you really think they are going to stop and check there credentials before they batter the hell out of them? Regardless, they will be someone daughter/son, and will most probably have every right to be here.

It has happened before and it will happen again.

I only think its a debate that if over publicised in the biased and factually incorrect media, can and will end in tears.

Many people believe every thing they read.

More Tea Vicar wrote:

pronstar wrote:

knick-knack wrote:

pronstar wrote:

BrownSauce wrote:

pronstar wrote:

leader Nigel Farage has planned a visit to Worcester in April

Will this be a flying visit?

Have you ever considered auditioning for the The Wheeltappers and Shunters Social Club?

Have you ever considered Farage is a joke of a man let alone a politician.

If I had to pick between a joke of a man and a bitter twisted specimen who never says anything good about anyone, uses bad language and enjoys being abusive, and is continuously aggressive, illogical and infantile to everyone - then it would be Farage over pronstar every time.

knick-knack wrote: If I had to pick between a joke of a man and a bitter twisted specimen who never says anything good about anyone, uses bad language and enjoys being abusive, and is continuously aggressive, illogical and infantile to everyone - then it would be Farage over pronstar every time.

It's clear that everything that I've posted about Ukip represents the unpalatable truth for you and a few of the usual suspects here and this is why you resort to this inept attempt at insulting me.

Anyone with a shred of intelligence can see straight through Ukip's hollow promises as well as their thinly veiled xenophobia.

It's probably clear in your head, pronstar. But in the real world outside your bedroom, things are different.

Another dismal attempt at an insult.

Do they pay you for this or do you do it for free?

Ukip are the party of the rich in so far as they support massive cuts in public spending (thus mostly affecting the poorest in society) together with equally large tax cuts (benefiting the wealthiest of course).

Fcuk Ukip, all that they stand for and all that support them.