Teenagers drive families from Hive (From Worcester News)

exactly why its the only one of its type!! last time I visited I had to step past a group of smokers at the main door. very nice.

This is a not a new problem - kids used to use the old history centre in town as a hang out as well, and the staff did nothing then either. They have security - they need to eject these kids, or better still make them get books and sit down and read them! That should make sure they don't come back...

Kids have turned weird. When I was a teenager the last place I wanted to "hang out" at was the library! Get them a bottle of white lightning and tell them to p*&s off down the park.

Can't say I'm surprised. In recent weeks the WN printed several highly flattering, and frankly rather dodgy-looking, reports about the Hive, always with the same insistence on how 'unique' its status as a joint city/uni library makes it.

And it didn't really chime with my own rather mixed experience of the place. I actually like the look of it, find the staff friendly and helpful, and generally like going there.

But I do find it noisy, and have spoken to a lot of people, including students, who don't like the place.

I went into the Hive for the first time a couple of weeks ago with my grandson after a visit to the cinama.
I felt very threatened by the appalling behaviour of some teenagers who were asking for a fight with this lad .
We left as the language was file I asked the guard to escort us past them as they went out side to wait for this boy for a fight .
I came home and commented to my daughter about it .My Grandson is fourteen but brought up well. I do think a lot of there behavior comes from the way some of them are brought up ,they have no respect at all . I did speak to one of them but had a mouth full of abuse back !
What a world we live in when we need guards on duty at a library hey ?I spoke to one of the staff about it and he thought kids have always been this way . I dont think so it did not matter who was in there they just did not care about other peoples feelings .
In my day you would not have been allowed to behave like this neither would you want to we had more respect for other people .
Sad isnt it the way the world is ?
I

This was always going to happen, although hanging around a library is a bit sad but its the same as when i walk to the bus station, foul mouthed youths from the high street all the way worst at macdonalds and the station.

I could not agree more with the complaints made here about this beautiful library.
Whilst I understand that teenagers need somewhere to 'be teenagers' a library is NOT a suitable place for this.
I tried taking my grandson there on Saturdays but, like others, quickly realised that it was not an appropriate place for a young child. The language and behaviour of an element of some of the young users was just unacceptable. Moving empty drinks cartons, sweet papers and apple cores is not what I expect to have to do before I can sit down to look at books.
My sympathies are with the staff who are having to deal with this behaviour instead of doing the job that they are trained to do, namely help children enjoy the world of books.

The Hive Open To The ( Public ), but with Lots of Issues.I use the Library Most of the Days and Have Seen Horrendous Attitude and Bad Behavior Not Only Teens But Also Grown People. What Security & Staff Have To Put Up With...
Security & Staff they do their Best, I Have Seen Their Professionalism in Dealing with = Teenagers, Intoxicated people and People you look at them and see they use Drugs. Police Officers & Community Support Officers they do turn up but very shortly stay and once a day.
Why they don't put some Police Officers Full Stop to All The Trouble ( Noise, Swearing, and Attitude...). Also another Issue Is Toilets i also Refer Disable Toilets and Baby Changing.. Some Occasions I've Seen a Large Group of Teens Blocking the Toilets and had to call Security sometimes Security & Staff they were Dealing with some problems Related with Smoking in front of the Building and Kindly asked me to give 2 minutes so they could Solve the Problem and I Could See Signs Everywhere and Still People Don't Respect.It's Sad what Everyone Who goes to The Hive even for the first Time has to Put Up with a Terrible View and Of Course, It Will Be a Bad Conclusion Of That All Money Spent....For All those Teens & Gangs Destroy the place. Library it Means Quiet Place - Study, Learn, Educate...
It's Normal If you Will See Some People In for 2 minutes Then They Will Be Out Swiftly Because Of All That Disturbance & Intimidation Specially Parents with Children....

I HOPE & REQUEST FOR THE MANAGEMENT OF THE HIVE TO READ ALL THIS COMMENTS & LISTEN TO THIS OLD MAN'S SAYING IN MY DAYS RESPECT WAS & STILL IS NUMBER 1 RULE.
Thank You...

That last comment hurts me eyes!

I agree with everything that has been said and to top it all, the place has started to fall down. If you look at the corner of the building nearest the bridge where the lift is, the block work has started to fall out. It has been like to for sometime now and is getting worse when will this be repaired!!!

Obviously not worker bees? More like drones?

The powers that be at the Hive need to have a serious think about who they wish to have as patrons, and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. As these comments indicate, decent families and individuals will desert the Hive altogether, if they haven't already, due to the totally unacceptable behaviour of our poor misunderstood youth. My husband went a couple of times at the weekend when it first opened and was disgusted by what he saw and heard and hasn't been back since.

I was a frequent visitor to the historical records dept when it was situated in the Trinity. Since it has moved to the Hive I have been only twice. the open plan design allows the noise, permeating.. from other multifarious activities to destroy the quite the calm and security of the former site. I do not .even feel safe entering the building due to various groups of intimidating people hanging around the entrance.

Firstly, this is the NOISIEST Library I have ever been in. Every time I visit the place seems to be even louder.

I was in The Hive on Saturday afternoon and witnessed a group of girls being escorted out - one of the girls was swearing at the Security Guard. 20 minutes later the Group were back! How did they get back in?!!!

The first time I walked round the Top Floor I thought how hard the Students were working as all the Computers were taken. By "Working", I do of course viewing FaceBook, YouTube, Twitter, Club Penguin etc etc.

You all need to stand up for yourselves, if you are in there trying to work and these kids are making a noise, tell them to shut up. Or complain to a guard or something. Don't come on here and moan, Stand up for yourselves for gods sake. We can take this Hive back and make Britain Great again!

The library has employed uni students to act as student mentors they engage with the young people do activities.
The staff only allow 70 young people in Level 0 but there are way more than 70 in Worcs.
You say its noisy, they are young people what do you expect? The Hive has let the young people in and let that culture build up until the student mentors got in and they are doing their upmost to change the culture now.
The young people are bored and yes they are bad mouthed but there are other factors that build into that such as family.
Its also a small number of young people most are well mannered and just want somewhere they can go instead of 'just hanging around'.

I took my son and grandson for a visit during half term. I approached a member of staff and she gave me a plan of the building and was extremely welcoming and helpful. Unfortunately I did witness behaviour from two groups of teenagers which was far from acceptable in such a place. One group was sprawled across a seating area being noisy, as we walked down the staircase another group passed us and shouted to some girls that were waiting at the bottom that they had been kicked out for being noisy although with a few expletives included. One lad said they'd have to find somewhere else 'for a bit of fun'.
I'm surprised no one has started campaigning for another youth centre and claiming that these are bored youngsters. They're not bored they are ignorant, arrogant individuals who have no idea how to behave and think its funny to intimidate others.

MJI wrote:
That last comment hurts me eyes!

Mine too!

It has to be said of course that families also are the cause of a lot of the noise at the Hive. Why do parents allow their little darlings to run up and down shouting and screaming their heads off? Have they no respect for other users?

How about implementing a fob-based system for genuine users? Yes it would cost money, but it would keep the 'undesirables' out. I'm not talking charging students (they pay enough) or usual patrons, but a logging in system on the door maybe? Most of the brats wouldn't go through.the trouble. I like the Hive during the week when our future rulers are mostly couped up at the correctional facilities known as school. As the Sun comes out, they will happily leave the Hive but unfortunately clog up the High Street and open spaces.

MJI - It Hurt My Eyes too - and as a Father I Have to Go Elsewhere with my Kids too as They Don't Like The Environment.
Why We All With The Staff at The Hive Don't Do A Petition So The Mayor Gets A place Only for All this Youths....

Perhaps this would be a better focus for the councils attentiont than a "white elephant" swimming pool we can't afford?

There is no excuse for bad behaviour, and certainly no one should feel they have to stay away from a resource they helped pay for and are entitled to use.

It wouldn't hurt the odd police officer to wander in periodically perhaps?

I am a student at the university, and I have to completely agree. My fellow third years and I find it incredibly difficult to find decent study spaces away from drunks (and I don't mean the teens!) and disrespectful teens. We even have a catch phrase 'you'll never guess what happened at the hive today . . . .'.
Parking is also awful (our £100 university permits are not honoured), and academic resources are muddled up with non-academic resources.

Many of us knew it was a terrible idea . . .

Should it not be called the "Dive" not the Hive? We have a similar problem in Kidderminster where it has become necessary for the library service to employ a security guard. Youths are often to be seen lounging on the chairs and computers, eating, drinking and swearing. The guard does what he can within his professional limits. However, I have seen elderly library users looking visibly intimidated. These youths should be in work, education or training. The cuts are impacting on them too, making them disaffected. Libraries are for learning, reading, quiet pleasure and providing access to IT for those who don't have access at home. They are not designed to be day centres for those who cannot behave appropriately.

Well, I've been living in Worcestershire for most of my life, I'm in my '50's, & recently Worcester has turned into 'Chav City'.
Even at lunchtime, there seem to be loads of p'd up drunks from some estates in the town centre.

Can you all remember what you used to do between the ages of 13 & 16 ? Can you...because this what this article forced me to do.

I was at the Warndon Youth Centre during the week, It has now been has been closed; Is there a youth centre or even a youth worker left in the city?

When I did hangout in town, it was a procession from McDonald's to Viking Burger to Woolies Cafe to anywhere else, anywhere we could just be social. I would like to think I was always respectful although I am sure I had my moments.

These kids are beginning to learn all the social lessons that we (well most of us) have already learned. It will take time for them, and for all those that come after them. We should certainly tell them to alter their behaviour when it offends but do so respectfully - so they can see how it is done. There will always be those that learn slowly as there will be those that never learn, but lets help as many as we can to learn.

They are 'free' on a Saturday which in my experience only means that they are 'bored'. Nowadays Tramps opens it doors to Under 18's only throughout the holidays. When I went there, every Tuesday was Nappy Tramps and it was my first chance to socialise with kids outside of my school, and school setting.

To the Kids, I suggest they speak up, write on here, on blogs, wherever they can reach decision makers. Campaign for the right to socialise somewhere safe and warm just like adults do at the weekend. For the rest of us the elected, the entrepreneurial, the civil servants, parents, teachers or anyone that has anything cool (sick or epic these days I believe) which could involve these kids (and has a CRB ;-) )steps fwd. Maybe 'Your Worcester News'©™ might look to reach out to the citizens of Worcester including that next generation upon whom they will be reliant on to survive.

There is the old Images nightclub lying empty next door to The Hive which would be ideal but then so is the existing City Youth Centre!!!!!

I see that The Hive is trying to accommodate and contend with these groups, but I'm not sure who else can say that they are?

Dukesi, you are using too many capital letters hence causing MJI to have eye strain! It made me quite dizzy too. The way to solve the Hive problem caused by teenagers is to open up milk bars around town. We used to have these back in the 50s and it gave us all somewhere to go. I cannot imagine being a teenager and not having a milk bar to go to!

Worcester is Chav City and the Hive is no different. The decent hardworking folk of the town are forgotten and marginalised but carry on paying taxes for these people to misbehave and intimidate. Worcester is full of low level antisocial behaviour which is treated too liberally. These kids need to finding training or work and their parents should be setting an example and should become responsible for their mini yobs.

i've not been to the hive yet, but if i was there, they wont intimidate me, i have worked all over uk and parts of spain dealing and seeing all sorts of idiots and good people, i'm afraid i speak my mind, if they dont like it then SHUT IT AND DO ONE!

also, have a quiet word, if not the tell them, just be straight, not pussyfoot around!

Sounds like the Hive requires more capable management and organisation. It must have been inevitable from the Hives conception that there would be a potential for conflict between students and non-students, and between the various ages and class of people using the facilities. There must surely be rules and those rules need to be robustly enforced.

Arise the keyboard warrior!

With the vast amount of information available on the internet, the only real benifit in going to a library is to have somewhere quite to work. If the library is noisier that the family home or the student digs, whats the point of the place? Our family all loved it when it first opened but I certainly won't be back until it feels a nice place to be again.

And Beerman, when you bravely tell seventy kids to 'do one' what happens when they say no?

Fog Based Japery wrote:
Kids have turned weird. When I was a teenager the last place I wanted to "hang out" at was the library! Get them a bottle of white lightning and tell them to p*&s off down the park.

Well said! Kids nowadays are such lightweights-:)

I can say that I know first hand how much crap the security at the Hive have to put up with. The abusive teenagers, druggies, drunks and even a death threat! Everyday they encounter someone who causes a problem. They deal with it the best they can, but like I have been told there is only so much they can do. They aren't allowed to touch anyone who is causing trouble. They cant even physically escort them off the premises!
They do their best, but there is only so much they are legally allowed to do.
I think most of it all boils down to how children have been brought up over the past 20 years, maybe more. Times have changed. I was born in 1981 and was brought up correctly. I was taught to respect others, as well as public and private property, taught manners and actually cared for by my parents! The amount of kids I see out on their own, some as young as 5 playing by the road, while their parents are probably inside smoking, drinking, taking drugs, or just being lazy cause they cant be bothered to work. Ok fine there may not be any jobs available because they have been taken by foreigners, but thats another issue! When I was younger (I'm now 31) I used to go over Perdiswell and play in the woods. Go out on my bike, play on the park (not vandalise it, or intimidate people) and make up our own fun. Sadly because kids today have been brought up on playstations and x-boxes they dont know how to make fun, unless it involves something they have seen on a violent computer game.
Maybe we should all look at the deeper issue. How children are raised?!?
Then maybe things might change, until then its just gonna get worse.

grumpy woman wrote:
Worcester is Chav City and the Hive is no different. The decent hardworking folk of the town are forgotten and marginalised but carry on paying taxes for these people to misbehave and intimidate. Worcester is full of low level antisocial behaviour which is treated too liberally. These kids need to finding training or work and their parents should be setting an example and should become responsible for their mini yobs.

It pains me to say it but I agree 100% with you.

I've noticed the downward spiral over the last few years and it really isn't a pleasant place to visit any more, for any reason.

The shopping is pretty poor, the state of the streets is a mess and the antisocial behaviour is out of control.

You are spot on regarding taxes - perhaps the councils and the police would like to solve some of these problems which they are already paid a lot of our money to do so instead of working out how to borrow more to build a swimming pool that is unlikely to be used to the extent they claim.

I do agree however with the comment above that these kids/teens/whatever are bored and there is ample space to create places for them to go. The hive is one such space - they just need to mind their behaviour - which should have been learned at home. Maybe that goes back to the chav point, who knows?

I do know it needs fixing but so do a lot of very basic things in and around Worcester! Maybe we should do those first and worry about swimming pools and other white elephants afterwards - perhaps we'll actually be able to afford them by then. Who knows? It is claimed miracles do happen!

My own experience with kids in general is that they are great. Really, the vast majority go to school, then go on to get jobs, and work hard.

I am often struck by how nice many young people, the kind you find serving in cafés etc are nowadays, compared to back in my day.

But of course, there is the minority of idiots. And they know the law is on their side, not that of the security guards.

Maybe there should be a police presence there. Maybe it would be a good idea to make the surface of the entry courtyard too rough for skateboards (we don't seem to have a problem making roads unusable...).

And perhaps we should consider having a students-only area, and limiting the time or use of the computers in the library.

Anytime I see people on computers, it's often foreigners apparently skyping home, or people in general facebooking.

rozzyraspberry wrote:
I am a student at the university, and I have to completely agree. My fellow third years and I find it incredibly difficult to find decent study spaces away from drunks (and I don't mean the teens!) and disrespectful teens. We even have a catch phrase 'you'll never guess what happened at the hive today . . . .'. Parking is also awful (our £100 university permits are not honoured), and academic resources are muddled up with non-academic resources. Many of us knew it was a terrible idea . . .

this is the core - being inclusive is one thing, delivering a service to students who pay high fees is another. Bonkers University!!

mooble wrote:
I can say that I know first hand how much crap the security at the Hive have to put up with. The abusive teenagers, druggies, drunks and even a death threat! Everyday they encounter someone who causes a problem. They deal with it the best they can, but like I have been told there is only so much they can do. They aren't allowed to touch anyone who is causing trouble. They cant even physically escort them off the premises!
They do their best, but there is only so much they are legally allowed to do.
I think most of it all boils down to how children have been brought up over the past 20 years, maybe more. Times have changed. I was born in 1981 and was brought up correctly. I was taught to respect others, as well as public and private property, taught manners and actually cared for by my parents! The amount of kids I see out on their own, some as young as 5 playing by the road, while their parents are probably inside smoking, drinking, taking drugs, or just being lazy cause they cant be bothered to work. Ok fine there may not be any jobs available because they have been taken by foreigners, but thats another issue! When I was younger (I'm now 31) I used to go over Perdiswell and play in the woods. Go out on my bike, play on the park (not vandalise it, or intimidate people) and make up our own fun. Sadly because kids today have been brought up on playstations and x-boxes they dont know how to make fun, unless it involves something they have seen on a violent computer game.
Maybe we should all look at the deeper issue. How children are raised?!?
Then maybe things might change, until then its just gonna get worse.

completely agree with you on that one mooble,its not just the hive they show off their baboonish behavior though, tried takeing my two young children to cripplegate park on saturday, place was over run with teens messing about and fighting on the equipment none of the children could get a look in,it took the balls of one elderly lady to tell them to do one!

We are very saddened by this article, young people are being demonised for using a safe warm space to meet. There is no longer a youth centre in the centre of Worcester. Where would you have us young people go? We thought the times of "Children should be seen and not heard" was a thing of the dark ages, clearly not.

No one has taken the time to mention the good things that go on at the Hive involving young people. instead everyone is jumping on the "lets blame the youths" band wagon!

We are not so stupid to think that all young people are angels and can be noisy, we may swear and we may talk about sex. It's what young people do……..what did you all do when you were young? Sit at home silently? NO didn’t think so!

Adults should stop and think before they tarnish us all with the brush of anti-social behaviour, and a problem just because we inconvenience you. Have any of you moaning adults attempted to invest your time with us young people before you write us off!

Comments such as "get them a bottle of white lightning and P*SS of down the park" or "make them read books, that'll make them not come back" are disgusting. Is it any wonder young people don’t always behave with respect when they are given NONE!

MasterKate wrote:
The library has employed uni students to act as student mentors they engage with the young people do activities.
The staff only allow 70 young people in Level 0 but there are way more than 70 in Worcs.
You say its noisy, they are young people what do you expect? The Hive has let the young people in and let that culture build up until the student mentors got in and they are doing their upmost to change the culture now.
The young people are bored and yes they are bad mouthed but there are other factors that build into that such as family.
Its also a small number of young people most are well mannered and just want somewhere they can go instead of 'just hanging around'.

MasterKate

we have heard about the mentors from Uni and think its great, I wonder if anyone for example noted that over 50 young people took park in their local Youth Cabinet and UK Youth Parliament elections AT THE HIVE!

IsmellBull wrote:
Can you all remember what you used to do between the ages of 13 & 16 ? Can you...because this what this article forced me to do.

I was at the Warndon Youth Centre during the week, It has now been has been closed; Is there a youth centre or even a youth worker left in the city?

When I did hangout in town, it was a procession from McDonald's to Viking Burger to Woolies Cafe to anywhere else, anywhere we could just be social. I would like to think I was always respectful although I am sure I had my moments.

These kids are beginning to learn all the social lessons that we (well most of us) have already learned. It will take time for them, and for all those that come after them. We should certainly tell them to alter their behaviour when it offends but do so respectfully - so they can see how it is done. There will always be those that learn slowly as there will be those that never learn, but lets help as many as we can to learn.

They are 'free' on a Saturday which in my experience only means that they are 'bored'. Nowadays Tramps opens it doors to Under 18's only throughout the holidays. When I went there, every Tuesday was Nappy Tramps and it was my first chance to socialise with kids outside of my school, and school setting.

To the Kids, I suggest they speak up, write on here, on blogs, wherever they can reach decision makers. Campaign for the right to socialise somewhere safe and warm just like adults do at the weekend. For the rest of us the elected, the entrepreneurial, the civil servants, parents, teachers or anyone that has anything cool (sick or epic these days I believe) which could involve these kids (and has a CRB ;-) )steps fwd. Maybe 'Your Worcester News'©™ might look to reach out to the citizens of Worcester including that next generation upon whom they will be reliant on to survive.

There is the old Images nightclub lying empty next door to The Hive which would be ideal but then so is the existing City Youth Centre!!!!!

I see that The Hive is trying to accommodate and contend with these groups, but I'm not sure who else can say that they are?

IsmellBull

We are in love in with what you have said!

well done you guys at the Youth Cabinet - wonderfull!!

I think the university has set up the Hive as eveyrthing for everyone and it just hasn't worked.

Worcestershire Youth Cabinet wrote:
We are very saddened by this article, young people are being demonised for using a safe warm space to meet. There is no longer a youth centre in the centre of Worcester. Where would you have us young people go? We thought the times of "Children should be seen and not heard" was a thing of the dark ages, clearly not.

No one has taken the time to mention the good things that go on at the Hive involving young people. instead everyone is jumping on the "lets blame the youths" band wagon!

We are not so stupid to think that all young people are angels and can be noisy, we may swear and we may talk about sex. It's what young people do……..what did you all do when you were young? Sit at home silently? NO didn’t think so!

Adults should stop and think before they tarnish us all with the brush of anti-social behaviour, and a problem just because we inconvenience you. Have any of you moaning adults attempted to invest your time with us young people before you write us off!

Comments such as "get them a bottle of white lightning and P*SS of down the park" or "make them read books, that'll make them not come back" are disgusting. Is it any wonder young people don’t always behave with respect when they are given NONE!

Well, I was young once, decades, not generations, ago, and in Worcester. I was no angel, but I felt no great desire to be a pain at the Library. There were far better places to go and be a pain....

And I didn't use 'youth centres', either.

Some of the stuff you say sounds a little as if you've beamed in from a 1960's Guardian-reading social workers course.

More Tea Vicar wrote:

Worcestershire Youth Cabinet wrote:
We are very saddened by this article, young people are being demonised for using a safe warm space to meet. There is no longer a youth centre in the centre of Worcester. Where would you have us young people go? We thought the times of "Children should be seen and not heard" was a thing of the dark ages, clearly not.

No one has taken the time to mention the good things that go on at the Hive involving young people. instead everyone is jumping on the "lets blame the youths" band wagon!

We are not so stupid to think that all young people are angels and can be noisy, we may swear and we may talk about sex. It's what young people do……..what did you all do when you were young? Sit at home silently? NO didn’t think so!

Adults should stop and think before they tarnish us all with the brush of anti-social behaviour, and a problem just because we inconvenience you. Have any of you moaning adults attempted to invest your time with us young people before you write us off!

Comments such as "get them a bottle of white lightning and P*SS of down the park" or "make them read books, that'll make them not come back" are disgusting. Is it any wonder young people don’t always behave with respect when they are given NONE!

Well, I was young once, decades, not generations, ago, and in Worcester. I was no angel, but I felt no great desire to be a pain at the Library. There were far better places to go and be a pain....

And I didn't use 'youth centres', either.

Some of the stuff you say sounds a little as if you've beamed in from a 1960's Guardian-reading social workers course.

Decades? that would be at least what? 20 a years ago? with respect maybe you should get with the times. A lot has changed.

well done for not being a pain in your local library, well done for not using a youth centre. I bet however that you were still branded a yob by many adults simply for being a young person. This is our point.

P.S Not that it matters, but I don't think any of us read the Guardian. We do however get totally fed up of being labeled constantly by adults who have no clue.

“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”.

Unfortunately with the Hive they have attempted to please all the people all the time.
Judging from the comments being made here they didn't succeed.

Teenage gangs taking over a library?! Only in Worcester would that make the headlines.

How awful, though. Where else will middle class families with money and cars spend their time now that ordinary young people go there? Perhaps we could build a Waitrose next to The Hive for the families?

Worcestershire Youth Cabinet wrote:

More Tea Vicar wrote:

Worcestershire Youth Cabinet wrote:
We are very saddened by this article, young people are being demonised for using a safe warm space to meet. There is no longer a youth centre in the centre of Worcester. Where would you have us young people go? We thought the times of "Children should be seen and not heard" was a thing of the dark ages, clearly not.

No one has taken the time to mention the good things that go on at the Hive involving young people. instead everyone is jumping on the "lets blame the youths" band wagon!

We are not so stupid to think that all young people are angels and can be noisy, we may swear and we may talk about sex. It's what young people do……..what did you all do when you were young? Sit at home silently? NO didn’t think so!

Adults should stop and think before they tarnish us all with the brush of anti-social behaviour, and a problem just because we inconvenience you. Have any of you moaning adults attempted to invest your time with us young people before you write us off!

Comments such as "get them a bottle of white lightning and P*SS of down the park" or "make them read books, that'll make them not come back" are disgusting. Is it any wonder young people don’t always behave with respect when they are given NONE!

Well, I was young once, decades, not generations, ago, and in Worcester. I was no angel, but I felt no great desire to be a pain at the Library. There were far better places to go and be a pain....

And I didn't use 'youth centres', either.

Some of the stuff you say sounds a little as if you've beamed in from a 1960's Guardian-reading social workers course.

Decades? that would be at least what? 20 a years ago? with respect maybe you should get with the times. A lot has changed.

well done for not being a pain in your local library, well done for not using a youth centre. I bet however that you were still branded a yob by many adults simply for being a young person. This is our point.

P.S Not that it matters, but I don't think any of us read the Guardian. We do however get totally fed up of being labeled constantly by adults who have no clue.

When? Way past the 60's and national service. And with respect, this is nothing to do with 'changing with the times'.

I posted earlier about the way most kids nowadays are fine, so forget the paranoia stuff. Making relevant remarks about those young people who act like idiots is not branding them as yobs because they are young.


And I didn't say you read the Guardian, merely that you sound like someone who does....

More Tea Vicar wrote:

Worcestershire Youth Cabinet wrote:

More Tea Vicar wrote:

Worcestershire Youth Cabinet wrote:
We are very saddened by this article, young people are being demonised for using a safe warm space to meet. There is no longer a youth centre in the centre of Worcester. Where would you have us young people go? We thought the times of "Children should be seen and not heard" was a thing of the dark ages, clearly not.

No one has taken the time to mention the good things that go on at the Hive involving young people. instead everyone is jumping on the "lets blame the youths" band wagon!

We are not so stupid to think that all young people are angels and can be noisy, we may swear and we may talk about sex. It's what young people do……..what did you all do when you were young? Sit at home silently? NO didn’t think so!

Adults should stop and think before they tarnish us all with the brush of anti-social behaviour, and a problem just because we inconvenience you. Have any of you moaning adults attempted to invest your time with us young people before you write us off!

Comments such as "get them a bottle of white lightning and P*SS of down the park" or "make them read books, that'll make them not come back" are disgusting. Is it any wonder young people don’t always behave with respect when they are given NONE!

Well, I was young once, decades, not generations, ago, and in Worcester. I was no angel, but I felt no great desire to be a pain at the Library. There were far better places to go and be a pain....

And I didn't use 'youth centres', either.

Some of the stuff you say sounds a little as if you've beamed in from a 1960's Guardian-reading social workers course.

Decades? that would be at least what? 20 a years ago? with respect maybe you should get with the times. A lot has changed.

well done for not being a pain in your local library, well done for not using a youth centre. I bet however that you were still branded a yob by many adults simply for being a young person. This is our point.

P.S Not that it matters, but I don't think any of us read the Guardian. We do however get totally fed up of being labeled constantly by adults who have no clue.

When? Way past the 60's and national service. And with respect, this is nothing to do with 'changing with the times'.

I posted earlier about the way most kids nowadays are fine, so forget the paranoia stuff. Making relevant remarks about those young people who act like idiots is not branding them as yobs because they are young.


And I didn't say you read the Guardian, merely that you sound like someone who does....

We have just read your post (did not read it before, was referring to the generalisations made in the article), apart from the bit about foreigners skyping home (that's a whole other debate) we agree with you. Thank you for that!

Worcestershire Youth Cabinet wrote:

More Tea Vicar wrote:

Worcestershire Youth Cabinet wrote:
We are very saddened by this article, young people are being demonised for using a safe warm space to meet. There is no longer a youth centre in the centre of Worcester. Where would you have us young people go? We thought the times of "Children should be seen and not heard" was a thing of the dark ages, clearly not.

No one has taken the time to mention the good things that go on at the Hive involving young people. instead everyone is jumping on the "lets blame the youths" band wagon!

We are not so stupid to think that all young people are angels and can be noisy, we may swear and we may talk about sex. It's what young people do……..what did you all do when you were young? Sit at home silently? NO didn’t think so!

Adults should stop and think before they tarnish us all with the brush of anti-social behaviour, and a problem just because we inconvenience you. Have any of you moaning adults attempted to invest your time with us young people before you write us off!

Comments such as "get them a bottle of white lightning and P*SS of down the park" or "make them read books, that'll make them not come back" are disgusting. Is it any wonder young people don’t always behave with respect when they are given NONE!

Well, I was young once, decades, not generations, ago, and in Worcester. I was no angel, but I felt no great desire to be a pain at the Library. There were far better places to go and be a pain....

And I didn't use 'youth centres', either.

Some of the stuff you say sounds a little as if you've beamed in from a 1960's Guardian-reading social workers course.

Decades? that would be at least what? 20 a years ago? with respect maybe you should get with the times. A lot has changed.

well done for not being a pain in your local library, well done for not using a youth centre. I bet however that you were still branded a yob by many adults simply for being a young person. This is our point.

P.S Not that it matters, but I don't think any of us read the Guardian. We do however get totally fed up of being labeled constantly by adults who have no clue.

btw. ....I know quite a few teenagers rather well....they don't seem to talk or think like you do, and you would probably be advised not to claim to speak for them.

More Tea Vicar wrote:

Worcestershire Youth Cabinet wrote:

More Tea Vicar wrote:

Worcestershire Youth Cabinet wrote:
We are very saddened by this article, young people are being demonised for using a safe warm space to meet. There is no longer a youth centre in the centre of Worcester. Where would you have us young people go? We thought the times of "Children should be seen and not heard" was a thing of the dark ages, clearly not.

No one has taken the time to mention the good things that go on at the Hive involving young people. instead everyone is jumping on the "lets blame the youths" band wagon!

We are not so stupid to think that all young people are angels and can be noisy, we may swear and we may talk about sex. It's what young people do……..what did you all do when you were young? Sit at home silently? NO didn’t think so!

Adults should stop and think before they tarnish us all with the brush of anti-social behaviour, and a problem just because we inconvenience you. Have any of you moaning adults attempted to invest your time with us young people before you write us off!

Comments such as "get them a bottle of white lightning and P*SS of down the park" or "make them read books, that'll make them not come back" are disgusting. Is it any wonder young people don’t always behave with respect when they are given NONE!

Well, I was young once, decades, not generations, ago, and in Worcester. I was no angel, but I felt no great desire to be a pain at the Library. There were far better places to go and be a pain....

And I didn't use 'youth centres', either.

Some of the stuff you say sounds a little as if you've beamed in from a 1960's Guardian-reading social workers course.

Decades? that would be at least what? 20 a years ago? with respect maybe you should get with the times. A lot has changed.

well done for not being a pain in your local library, well done for not using a youth centre. I bet however that you were still branded a yob by many adults simply for being a young person. This is our point.

P.S Not that it matters, but I don't think any of us read the Guardian. We do however get totally fed up of being labeled constantly by adults who have no clue.

btw. ....I know quite a few teenagers rather well....they don't seem to talk or think like you do, and you would probably be advised not to claim to speak for them.

Ok, happy to hear from them, we always want more young people to get involved and have a say.

We were voted on to the Youth Cabinet by over 5000 young people, and we try our best, we know not everyone will agree. but at least we are trying. :)

we have a twitter and website and stuff if you would like to let the teenagers you know how to get in touch with so we can do our job better.

Great to see the youth debating (and easily winning) this argument! Thousands of kids are doing amazing things in this city and seeing at first hand what the primary schools are doing, we can look forward to future generations. Unfortunately as some kids just sit around doing nothing, only a few of the older generation sit on there computers all day moaning about the youth!!

The problem is, some people here are assuming that anyone criticising the misbehaviour of those who are causing problems at the Hive are making generalisations about 'youth'.

I've said elsewhere, in this and other threads, that I find most youth fine, more than fine, in fact, and I do know quite a few of them (I'm dad-age..)

But the ones I know tend to dislike the ones who misbehave just as much as anyone else does. And they don't seem to relate to being represented by any particular group, either.

CJH wrote:
This is a not a new problem - kids used to use the old history centre in town as a hang out as well, and the staff did nothing then either. They have security - they need to eject these kids, or better still make them get books and sit down and read them! That should make sure they don't come back...

Presume you ain't got kids and have the attitude they should not have much of a life. I would rather see them hanging round a library than roaming the streets looking for trouble.
Your comments are very churlish.

TDH123 wrote:
Sounds like the Hive requires more capable management and organisation. It must have been inevitable from the Hives conception that there would be a potential for conflict between students and non-students, and between the various ages and class of people using the facilities. There must surely be rules and those rules need to be robustly enforced.

The council's management has been the weak link throughout the developement of the new library. Less focus on staff pay rises, uniforms and parties and more sensible consideration of how to create a new library. What was the point of spending all that money tp produce something so full of holes?

truth must out wrote:

CJH wrote:
This is a not a new problem - kids used to use the old history centre in town as a hang out as well, and the staff did nothing then either. They have security - they need to eject these kids, or better still make them get books and sit down and read them! That should make sure they don't come back...

Presume you ain't got kids and have the attitude they should not have much of a life. I would rather see them hanging round a library than roaming the streets looking for trouble.
Your comments are very churlish.

I have a right to use the library and history centre without kids (or adults) roaming around the building looking for trouble and causing a distraction while I am trying to work there. Please don't make presumptions about my personal life without facts. Those comments are unnecessary and out of context with this topic.

Countyconcilemployee wrote:

TDH123 wrote:
Sounds like the Hive requires more capable management and organisation. It must have been inevitable from the Hives conception that there would be a potential for conflict between students and non-students, and between the various ages and class of people using the facilities. There must surely be rules and those rules need to be robustly enforced.

The council's management has been the weak link throughout the developement of the new library. Less focus on staff pay rises, uniforms and parties and more sensible consideration of how to create a new library. What was the point of spending all that money tp produce something so full of holes?

The sad fact is, this isn't about 'kids' in general, it's about the small numbers who choose to hang around the library being abusive.

And the problems are more to do with basic errors made by the authorities designing the building.

The open plan design means noise carries, and concentrating so many services on that building is what's allowed the Council to boast, incessantly, about the high footfall. It also means a lot of people in a relatively small area, with obvious consequences in terms of noise.

The mixing of city and uni library which the council boasts about, incessantly, is actually a fundamentally crap idea. The Council boasts it's 'unique'. That's why it's unique. It's too stupid for most people to envisage.

At very least, if it's to function as a uni library, it needs to have a students-only area.

There are some really good points about the building, but some really poor ones, too. And the Council needs to focus on resolving those, not bombarding us with stories about how great the Hive is.

CJH wrote:

truth must out wrote:

CJH wrote:
This is a not a new problem - kids used to use the old history centre in town as a hang out as well, and the staff did nothing then either. They have security - they need to eject these kids, or better still make them get books and sit down and read them! That should make sure they don't come back...

Presume you ain't got kids and have the attitude they should not have much of a life. I would rather see them hanging round a library than roaming the streets looking for trouble.
Your comments are very churlish.

I have a right to use the library and history centre without kids (or adults) roaming around the building looking for trouble and causing a distraction while I am trying to work there. Please don't make presumptions about my personal life without facts. Those comments are unnecessary and out of context with this topic.

Yep.........thought so!!

I am a teenager, and although I don't "hang around" at the hive I understand the need for somewhere for youths to socialise. as a teenager I constantly feel alienated by my elders with most of them avoiding eye contact and ignoring my "good mornings" ect. when you are treated like this on a constant basis you do grow a certain disdain for adults. especially when adults then blame teenagers for the lack of "community spirit". the hive is a perfect location for people of all generations to share, and by saying "give them a bottle of white lighting and send them down the park" is stereotyping on a massive scale. this problem is very much a two way game, by avoiding teens and "fearing" them you make them feel alienated and that in turn, makes them more hostile to adults. you are just as much to blame for this problem as teenagers.

I've been to the Hive many times and never had a problem with this brand new species of youth that has been created from.. oh yes, the parents and grandparents who are complaining about their upbringing.

I think much of the tensions between young and old users of the hive stem from the changing status of libraries over the last generation.

Previously, libraries were places to go to study in silence. However, the Hive represents the new breed- effectively a study centre where you can work together and a group and relax, much in the way that the old Peirson library up on St. Johns Campus used to operate.

I have been told off for talking quietly to a friend in the Hive by an older user, saying "this isnt a coffee shop". The same user then went on to rollock another member, younger than me again for talking quietly to her friend about what books she needed. Surely we should be attempting to encourage the younger, newer generation to read? If users are so dead set on silent study, perhaps they should head on up to level 4 which is the designated study zone.

Just arrest them and keep them in the cells a couple of days. Then if they can't go to school for a day because they are locked up, fine the parents for them not attending as well. Would resolve the entire problem in about a month.

sittinginmytincan wrote:
I think much of the tensions between young and old users of the hive stem from the changing status of libraries over the last generation.

Previously, libraries were places to go to study in silence. However, the Hive represents the new breed- effectively a study centre where you can work together and a group and relax, much in the way that the old Peirson library up on St. Johns Campus used to operate.

I have been told off for talking quietly to a friend in the Hive by an older user, saying "this isnt a coffee shop". The same user then went on to rollock another member, younger than me again for talking quietly to her friend about what books she needed. Surely we should be attempting to encourage the younger, newer generation to read? If users are so dead set on silent study, perhaps they should head on up to level 4 which is the designated study zone.

Fair enough, but the boast is, that it's supposed to be a uni library. I know uni has changed in the last few decades, but i can't see how anyone can 'study' in the conditions that prevail in the library.

And the issue about people with young children feeling intimidated by teenagers seem valid enough.

That absolutely doesn't mean all teenagers are bad, or that the library should be like a morgue.

More Tea Vicar wrote:

sittinginmytincan wrote:
I think much of the tensions between young and old users of the hive stem from the changing status of libraries over the last generation.

Previously, libraries were places to go to study in silence. However, the Hive represents the new breed- effectively a study centre where you can work together and a group and relax, much in the way that the old Peirson library up on St. Johns Campus used to operate.

I have been told off for talking quietly to a friend in the Hive by an older user, saying "this isnt a coffee shop". The same user then went on to rollock another member, younger than me again for talking quietly to her friend about what books she needed. Surely we should be attempting to encourage the younger, newer generation to read? If users are so dead set on silent study, perhaps they should head on up to level 4 which is the designated study zone.

Fair enough, but the boast is, that it's supposed to be a uni library. I know uni has changed in the last few decades, but i can't see how anyone can 'study' in the conditions that prevail in the library.

And the issue about people with young children feeling intimidated by teenagers seem valid enough.

That absolutely doesn't mean all teenagers are bad, or that the library should be like a morgue.

I understand completely the whole children getting intimidated by groups of teenagers, and the behaviour of some people in the Hive is horrendous. However, it has looked at times that this forum has been a bit of a place to slate the youth of today; when actually many of the issues I have with the place is the live Jeremy Kyle scenarios I see here daily.

On a different note, I am a uni student and I find it the right sort of environment to study- you can have a chat to distract you when you hit the wall with an assignment for example. If however, different students prefer working in silence, a many of my friends do, then they use the zone to match their learning style.

We would like to share some of the comments that come directly from the young people that use the Hive. They were asked what they thought when they saw the article (Teenagers Drive Families from the Hive)

" We increase business, we make the Hive alive"

"we're not all the same"

"people that are doing things wrong get kicked out anyway, if we were all being annoying we would get kicked out. but we don't"

"Sad, because there is nowhere else to go"

" If i couldn't go to the hive I would be walking around town"

" We should have stricter rules about adults coming downstairs" (into the youth area)

"Its a very naive thing to say, considering you clearly haven't taken things into account like the lack of places to go and onions of us and staff at the Hive. May I also remind you that the term 'teenagers' relates to a very large group of people and saying that we are all the same would be like doing the same to adults."

"sad that opinions of us are bad"

"Upset"

"If i couldn't go to the Hive I would be at home with no social life"

"It really annoys me that teenagers are stereotyped"

Exactly why, as a university student, I hate the combining of my university library with the public library, and should give some insight as to WHY it is the only library of its kind.

As a student, I want to have somewhere quiet to study, not happening in the Hive. We are told 'There a quiet study areas the higher up you go, and the further out you go' -not so. Because of the huge atrium, the noise carries from the lower floors.

Don't get me started on the lack of parking for students to visit OUR OWN LIBRARY with parking permits for the university.

I also agree, teenagers hanging outside the library door smoking is exceptionally off putting, yet the security guards follow me around the building? Move on the brats hanging out there!!

Opening hours are limited due to them 'not wanting people going to hang out there all night' - but it's ok during the day when people want to use the library for study etc?!

I'm really not surprised by this at all, it was a terrible idea and a terrible waste of university resources that could have been put to better use elsewhere.

P.S. Library staff need to get on top of keeping the shelves in order to make finding books easier - books keep disappearing. SURPRISE SURPRISE!!!