Hospital staff not allowed to wear veils

Worcester News: Hospital staff not allowed to wear veils Hospital staff not allowed to wear veils

FRONTLINE hospital staff in Worcester are not allowed to wear veils while treating patients.

There is currently no national guidance on uniform policies for the 160 NHS trusts in England, with decisions left down to the discretion of local managers.

But at a time of increased public debate over Muslim head-dress, the government has ordered a review of all health service policies on workers’ uniforms.

Reports this week have revealed that at least 17 hospital trusts have already banned staff from wearing veils when in contact with patients.

And your Worcester News can reveal that Worcestershire Acute Hospitals NHS Trust, which runs Worcestershire Royal Hospital, does not allow its doctors and nurses to interact with patients with their faces covered.

The trust’s uniform policy does allow for “navy blue or black head coverings, turbans or skull caps”, which may be worn for religious reasons.

Regulations also state that head garments must be clean and changed daily and must be secured without any loose ends.

A spokesman for the trust said: “We don’t allow staff in contact with patients to wear veils but we do allow them to cover their heads.”

Health minister Dr Dan Poulter has ordered the review of uniform policies.

He said: “Being unable to see a health care professional’s face can be a barrier to good and empathetic communication with patients and their families. That is why I am writing to all health care regulators to ask them to look into this matter and to review their professional regulations, to ensure that there is always appropriate face to face contact between health care professionals and their patients.”

Comments (41)

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11:06am Thu 19 Sep 13

tub_thumper says...

This will probably upset a few but this is our country and we rely on face-to-face contact when dealing with professionals. Most of our communication isn't necessarily just verbal. Our brain also relies on body language and facial expressions. If you can't see a professionals face then how can you trust them?

I used to ride a motor bike. Every time I went into a shop or a a petrol station I would always take off my helmet - not only as good manners but as a trust thing too. It works both ways - regardless of religion.
This will probably upset a few but this is our country and we rely on face-to-face contact when dealing with professionals. Most of our communication isn't necessarily just verbal. Our brain also relies on body language and facial expressions. If you can't see a professionals face then how can you trust them? I used to ride a motor bike. Every time I went into a shop or a a petrol station I would always take off my helmet - not only as good manners but as a trust thing too. It works both ways - regardless of religion. tub_thumper
  • Score: 35

11:15am Thu 19 Sep 13

69badger69 says...

Excellent news, all we need now is for them to be banned anywhere in public in this country.
Excellent news, all we need now is for them to be banned anywhere in public in this country. 69badger69
  • Score: 28

12:29pm Thu 19 Sep 13

Hwicce says...

The wearing of a veil is not required by the Quran, it seems to be a fallacy that has developed over a number of years for a number of political reasons.

As such it should be treated like any other item of clothing that covers the face e.g. crash helmet, balaclava, hoodie. You can wear it if you want but not in banks, courts or schools etc. where it is important to see your face.
The wearing of a veil is not required by the Quran, it seems to be a fallacy that has developed over a number of years for a number of political reasons. As such it should be treated like any other item of clothing that covers the face e.g. crash helmet, balaclava, hoodie. You can wear it if you want but not in banks, courts or schools etc. where it is important to see your face. Hwicce
  • Score: 19

12:39pm Thu 19 Sep 13

Shibdrift says...

Just what you need when you are ill or injured and possibly in a frantic state - a veiled face staring at you!

Nothing to do with religion or anything, just plain and simple respect for your fellow 'man'.

Disgraceful that it has all come to this.
Just what you need when you are ill or injured and possibly in a frantic state - a veiled face staring at you! Nothing to do with religion or anything, just plain and simple respect for your fellow 'man'. Disgraceful that it has all come to this. Shibdrift
  • Score: 22

1:12pm Thu 19 Sep 13

saucerer says...

69badger69 wrote:
Excellent news, all we need now is for them to be banned anywhere in public in this country.
The veil or the people that wear them.... ;-)

I agree with your comments though 69badger69. There is no place in Britain for people to hide their faces purely for social or so-called religious beliefs. If we're not allowed to display our culture, which we take for granted, in some nations, why shouldn't the same apply here? If they don't like it, there are many flights out of this country.
[quote][p][bold]69badger69[/bold] wrote: Excellent news, all we need now is for them to be banned anywhere in public in this country.[/p][/quote]The veil or the people that wear them.... ;-) I agree with your comments though 69badger69. There is no place in Britain for people to hide their faces purely for social or so-called religious beliefs. If we're not allowed to display our culture, which we take for granted, in some nations, why shouldn't the same apply here? If they don't like it, there are many flights out of this country. saucerer
  • Score: 18

1:35pm Thu 19 Sep 13

Redditch Resident says...

At last, some news that makes common sense!! If I were to walk down the road in a ballaclava I'd probably have the Swat Team after me, or if my wife were to show her skin in some other country I dread to think of the consequnces so why the hell should they get away with it here? It seem human rights have been replaced with immigrants rights.... I hate this country and it's about time we made a stand. If you want to live in this country then respect our people and requests
At last, some news that makes common sense!! If I were to walk down the road in a ballaclava I'd probably have the Swat Team after me, or if my wife were to show her skin in some other country I dread to think of the consequnces so why the hell should they get away with it here? It seem human rights have been replaced with immigrants rights.... I hate this country and it's about time we made a stand. If you want to live in this country then respect our people and requests Redditch Resident
  • Score: 25

2:18pm Thu 19 Sep 13

walkerno5 says...

"Excellent news, all we need now is for them to be banned anywhere in public in this country."

Why?

Will you also be calling for the banning of all masks? Banning trick or treat? What if I want to wear some fencing gear and wander about? Will you ban motorcyclists from wearing helmets?

Is it people covering their face in public you object to, or just people doing it for religious reasons?
"Excellent news, all we need now is for them to be banned anywhere in public in this country." Why? Will you also be calling for the banning of all masks? Banning trick or treat? What if I want to wear some fencing gear and wander about? Will you ban motorcyclists from wearing helmets? Is it people covering their face in public you object to, or just people doing it for religious reasons? walkerno5
  • Score: -22

2:48pm Thu 19 Sep 13

69badger69 says...

walkerno5 wrote:
"Excellent news, all we need now is for them to be banned anywhere in public in this country."

Why?

Will you also be calling for the banning of all masks? Banning trick or treat? What if I want to wear some fencing gear and wander about? Will you ban motorcyclists from wearing helmets?

Is it people covering their face in public you object to, or just people doing it for religious reasons?
Oh the left wing do gooders have got out of bed !

People do not wear motorcycle helmets or fencing masks unless protecting themselves from possible injury

When in Rome
[quote][p][bold]walkerno5[/bold] wrote: "Excellent news, all we need now is for them to be banned anywhere in public in this country." Why? Will you also be calling for the banning of all masks? Banning trick or treat? What if I want to wear some fencing gear and wander about? Will you ban motorcyclists from wearing helmets? Is it people covering their face in public you object to, or just people doing it for religious reasons?[/p][/quote]Oh the left wing do gooders have got out of bed ! People do not wear motorcycle helmets or fencing masks unless protecting themselves from possible injury When in Rome 69badger69
  • Score: 16

2:57pm Thu 19 Sep 13

Handcart says...

saucerer wrote:
69badger69 wrote:
Excellent news, all we need now is for them to be banned anywhere in public in this country.
The veil or the people that wear them.... ;-)

I agree with your comments though 69badger69. There is no place in Britain for people to hide their faces purely for social or so-called religious beliefs. If we're not allowed to display our culture, which we take for granted, in some nations, why shouldn't the same apply here? If they don't like it, there are many flights out of this country.
The country would be a better place if some people left, that is for sure, suacerer (whose post may be removed). However, you are free to stay and be intolerant, but the freedoms we enjoy here do not include freedom to incite hatred or be racist. People have been saying 'go home' to those who are, or whose family were immigrants for many years. It did not work in 1066 or in any century since, while this country changed, bit by bit in to to the mixed bag it currently is. I like it like this. Your personal freedom, freedom of expression, freedom of religion etc, and mine, come SECOND to the law of the land.
[quote][p][bold]saucerer[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]69badger69[/bold] wrote: Excellent news, all we need now is for them to be banned anywhere in public in this country.[/p][/quote]The veil or the people that wear them.... ;-) I agree with your comments though 69badger69. There is no place in Britain for people to hide their faces purely for social or so-called religious beliefs. If we're not allowed to display our culture, which we take for granted, in some nations, why shouldn't the same apply here? If they don't like it, there are many flights out of this country.[/p][/quote]The country would be a better place if some people left, that is for sure, suacerer (whose post may be removed). However, you are free to stay and be intolerant, but the freedoms we enjoy here do not include freedom to incite hatred or be racist. People have been saying 'go home' to those who are, or whose family were immigrants for many years. It did not work in 1066 or in any century since, while this country changed, bit by bit in to to the mixed bag it currently is. I like it like this. Your personal freedom, freedom of expression, freedom of religion etc, and mine, come SECOND to the law of the land. Handcart
  • Score: 5

3:26pm Thu 19 Sep 13

andrew151 says...

what happens if like me I am deaf and have to lip read to communicate with such a person surely the would remove the veil so that I could understand what and see what they are saying to me hope you get my point on this matter
what happens if like me I am deaf and have to lip read to communicate with such a person surely the would remove the veil so that I could understand what and see what they are saying to me hope you get my point on this matter andrew151
  • Score: 20

6:56pm Thu 19 Sep 13

The Doosra says...

69badger69 wrote:
walkerno5 wrote:
"Excellent news, all we need now is for them to be banned anywhere in public in this country."

Why?

Will you also be calling for the banning of all masks? Banning trick or treat? What if I want to wear some fencing gear and wander about? Will you ban motorcyclists from wearing helmets?

Is it people covering their face in public you object to, or just people doing it for religious reasons?
Oh the left wing do gooders have got out of bed !

People do not wear motorcycle helmets or fencing masks unless protecting themselves from possible injury

When in Rome
For the life of me, I can't see anything vaguely "left wing" or "do-gooder" in the above comment. I bet you still see reds under the bed.
[quote][p][bold]69badger69[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]walkerno5[/bold] wrote: "Excellent news, all we need now is for them to be banned anywhere in public in this country." Why? Will you also be calling for the banning of all masks? Banning trick or treat? What if I want to wear some fencing gear and wander about? Will you ban motorcyclists from wearing helmets? Is it people covering their face in public you object to, or just people doing it for religious reasons?[/p][/quote]Oh the left wing do gooders have got out of bed ! People do not wear motorcycle helmets or fencing masks unless protecting themselves from possible injury When in Rome[/p][/quote]For the life of me, I can't see anything vaguely "left wing" or "do-gooder" in the above comment. I bet you still see reds under the bed. The Doosra
  • Score: 6

1:37am Fri 20 Sep 13

Jabbadad says...

This isn't about the rights of Muslim women since a majority of them do not have the same rights as our own non-muslim women. There are those who have lived for many years in this country who not of their own choice still do not speak English, but expect all the services, schools to accommodate them, by employing interpreters or using very expensive langauge line telephone services.
I also agree that in many cases it is important to be able to see a persons features, and for those who do not agree, then they themselves have excluded themselves from wherever the situation requires.
And do these women who protest also support the other male Muslim dominace , to still stone Women to death, many being innocent but not allowed the unrestrained services of lawyers?
For all our other faults and we have many our women are treated with respect and enjoy a right to freedom of choice.
Ask why they are not allowed to attend the same meetings as the men, or pray with the men?
And looking as we do over such protests we see that the person who is urging these changes is a militant lefty, who preaches hate as well as posing as a Muslim, and should be deported to where he can practice his beliefs.
I am also sure that non muslims would not enjoy the same alternatives to Islam in a Muslim country.
This isn't about the rights of Muslim women since a majority of them do not have the same rights as our own non-muslim women. There are those who have lived for many years in this country who not of their own choice still do not speak English, but expect all the services, schools to accommodate them, by employing interpreters or using very expensive langauge line telephone services. I also agree that in many cases it is important to be able to see a persons features, and for those who do not agree, then they themselves have excluded themselves from wherever the situation requires. And do these women who protest also support the other male Muslim dominace , to still stone Women to death, many being innocent but not allowed the unrestrained services of lawyers? For all our other faults and we have many our women are treated with respect and enjoy a right to freedom of choice. Ask why they are not allowed to attend the same meetings as the men, or pray with the men? And looking as we do over such protests we see that the person who is urging these changes is a militant lefty, who preaches hate as well as posing as a Muslim, and should be deported to where he can practice his beliefs. I am also sure that non muslims would not enjoy the same alternatives to Islam in a Muslim country. Jabbadad
  • Score: 7

6:44am Fri 20 Sep 13

New Kid on the Block says...

Can anybody tell me where it says that muslim women must wear a veil.
To the best of my knowledge it is not a religious requirement but a personal choice to wear a veil. The question is whose personal choice is it?
Can anybody tell me where it says that muslim women must wear a veil. To the best of my knowledge it is not a religious requirement but a personal choice to wear a veil. The question is whose personal choice is it? New Kid on the Block
  • Score: 3

7:34am Fri 20 Sep 13

green49 says...

About time the MPs stood up and made some sort of law about this, they wont they will put the onus on someone else to make a descision as they do with funding issues, absolute wasters they are.

If i owned a shop no one would be allowed in unless i could see there face, full stop and i wouldnt care if it was a biker or a veiled person, as far as i can tell most people agree with all this and its about time our country stood up and said NO.
About time the MPs stood up and made some sort of law about this, they wont they will put the onus on someone else to make a descision as they do with funding issues, absolute wasters they are. If i owned a shop no one would be allowed in unless i could see there face, full stop and i wouldnt care if it was a biker or a veiled person, as far as i can tell most people agree with all this and its about time our country stood up and said NO. green49
  • Score: 10

11:18am Fri 20 Sep 13

walkerno5 says...

When I was a lad there was a lot of talk in this country about freedom being a fine thing and how the oppressed masses in communist countries (in particular) were crying out for it.

Freedom is for me the ability to do as you wish, provided it does not infringe the freedoms and rights of others. I consider the principle of freedom a central piece of our culture.

If you start removing freedoms from people you erode our culture. Be very careful what you wish for. If you start removing rights from people, you erode our culture. Be very careful what you wish for.

This is not left wing. It's not right wing. The principles at stake here underlie all political philosophies that stake any claim to democracy.

The prohibitive, prescriptive path you would choose is one familiar to, shared by, and encouraging to religious and political fundamentalists.

Be very careful what you wish for.
When I was a lad there was a lot of talk in this country about freedom being a fine thing and how the oppressed masses in communist countries (in particular) were crying out for it. Freedom is for me the ability to do as you wish, provided it does not infringe the freedoms and rights of others. I consider the principle of freedom a central piece of our culture. If you start removing freedoms from people you erode our culture. Be very careful what you wish for. If you start removing rights from people, you erode our culture. Be very careful what you wish for. This is not left wing. It's not right wing. The principles at stake here underlie all political philosophies that stake any claim to democracy. The prohibitive, prescriptive path you would choose is one familiar to, shared by, and encouraging to religious and political fundamentalists. Be very careful what you wish for. walkerno5
  • Score: 2

11:20am Fri 20 Sep 13

walkerno5 says...

"If i owned a shop no one would be allowed in unless i could see there face, full stop and i wouldnt care if it was a biker or a veiled person, as far as i can tell most people agree with all this and its about time our country stood up and said NO."

That's your prerogative. If I refused to serve people in my (imaginary) pub unless they had a moustache that would also be my prerogative. I might expect a protest from those unable to grow one, but I cannot be forced to serve them.
"If i owned a shop no one would be allowed in unless i could see there face, full stop and i wouldnt care if it was a biker or a veiled person, as far as i can tell most people agree with all this and its about time our country stood up and said NO." That's your prerogative. If I refused to serve people in my (imaginary) pub unless they had a moustache that would also be my prerogative. I might expect a protest from those unable to grow one, but I cannot be forced to serve them. walkerno5
  • Score: 2

11:28am Fri 20 Sep 13

walkerno5 says...

And let me make these things clear.

Religions are silly. All of them. A right old waste of time and intelligence. If we ever manage to shake them off altogether, we'll all be better off for it. Doing anything for religious reasons is very much akin to my mind to doing them for no reason at all.

Burkas are a pretty silly thing to wear, and have a detrimental effect on interactions between the wearer and everyone else.

The freedom of others to disagree with my first two points are more important than my opinions. It doesn't make me or them wrong or oppressed that we disagree.

My freedom to make the first two points is one of the most important rights of all.
And let me make these things clear. Religions are silly. All of them. A right old waste of time and intelligence. If we ever manage to shake them off altogether, we'll all be better off for it. Doing anything for religious reasons is very much akin to my mind to doing them for no reason at all. Burkas are a pretty silly thing to wear, and have a detrimental effect on interactions between the wearer and everyone else. The freedom of others to disagree with my first two points are more important than my opinions. It doesn't make me or them wrong or oppressed that we disagree. My freedom to make the first two points is one of the most important rights of all. walkerno5
  • Score: 6

11:41am Fri 20 Sep 13

imustbeoldiwearacap says...

I rather think that many who now wear the full veil do so out of political and not cultural reasons (the full veil is not a religious requirement - it's purely cultural) However, we value our freedoms in this country and although many have been eroded over the years it is a woman's right (as long as it is HER choice) to wear a full veil. HOWEVER out of common courtesy, good manners and respect for OUR culture, the veil should be removed when talking to someone. If the woman refuses to take off the veil, she should be ignored - after all it is her that is being disrespectful! If she has a problem with that.............?
I rather think that many who now wear the full veil do so out of political and not cultural reasons (the full veil is not a religious requirement - it's purely cultural) However, we value our freedoms in this country and although many have been eroded over the years it is a woman's right (as long as it is HER choice) to wear a full veil. HOWEVER out of common courtesy, good manners and respect for OUR culture, the veil should be removed when talking to someone. If the woman refuses to take off the veil, she should be ignored - after all it is her that is being disrespectful! If she has a problem with that.............? imustbeoldiwearacap
  • Score: 6

11:46am Fri 20 Sep 13

Jabbadad says...

Be Careful what you wish for? well I wish for all people to be considerate to the Country you live in, to all those you come into contact with and are aware of, understand and even comply with their Rules & Regulations and not distablise by demanding these seeemingly harmfull demands of total freedom to do whatesoever we want.
We all need guidlines such as Walker no5 I would not expect to just open your front door and pop in to make myself a cuppa, I would not expect you to get out of my way if I chose to drive my car on the right hand side of the Road and not the left. These are just rules & laws which make general life easy for us all in considering others.
But now off my soapbox this situation of the veils is nothing less than yet another attempt for Muslim dominance at all costs.
Be Careful what you wish for? well I wish for all people to be considerate to the Country you live in, to all those you come into contact with and are aware of, understand and even comply with their Rules & Regulations and not distablise by demanding these seeemingly harmfull demands of total freedom to do whatesoever we want. We all need guidlines such as Walker no5 I would not expect to just open your front door and pop in to make myself a cuppa, I would not expect you to get out of my way if I chose to drive my car on the right hand side of the Road and not the left. These are just rules & laws which make general life easy for us all in considering others. But now off my soapbox this situation of the veils is nothing less than yet another attempt for Muslim dominance at all costs. Jabbadad
  • Score: 1

12:03pm Fri 20 Sep 13

walkerno5 says...

"HOWEVER out of common courtesy, good manners and respect for OUR culture, the veil should be removed when talking to someone. If the woman refuses to take off the veil, she should be ignored - after all it is her that is being disrespectful"

We actually agree on this more than disagree, but I would come at it from a different angle - you say the veil should be removed when talking to someone - I would say that it is up to the wearer whether they remove it, but the listener has the right to decide whether to communicate, just as you have the right to refuse to communicate with anyone else in public.

There is an exception where someone wearing a veil is dealing with a public body, because it is not up to the government to tell the public how to approach it. Government agencies must deal with all citizens equally, whether they are wearing a veil, a space suit, facial tattoos or clown make up.
"HOWEVER out of common courtesy, good manners and respect for OUR culture, the veil should be removed when talking to someone. If the woman refuses to take off the veil, she should be ignored - after all it is her that is being disrespectful" We actually agree on this more than disagree, but I would come at it from a different angle - you say the veil should be removed when talking to someone - I would say that it is up to the wearer whether they remove it, but the listener has the right to decide whether to communicate, just as you have the right to refuse to communicate with anyone else in public. There is an exception where someone wearing a veil is dealing with a public body, because it is not up to the government to tell the public how to approach it. Government agencies must deal with all citizens equally, whether they are wearing a veil, a space suit, facial tattoos or clown make up. walkerno5
  • Score: 5

12:16pm Fri 20 Sep 13

walkerno5 says...

@Jabbadad

"Be Careful what you wish for? well I wish for all people to be considerate to the Country you live in, to all those you come into contact with and are aware of, understand and even comply with their Rules & Regulations and not distablise by demanding these seeemingly harmfull demands of total freedom to do whatesoever we want. "

Being considerate to the country you live in means respecting its laws and traditions.There is no prohibition in English law against covering your face in public. Therefore our traditions say it is a freedom for you to enjoy. Why would you seek to restrict this freedom? What are the benefits that will flow from this?

Regarding wearing a veil as a harmful demand for total freedom seems a bit of an overreaction to me. That's just my opinion and you clearly feel strongly about it and I'd genuinely like to understand what harm you think it does.

"I would not expect to just open your front door and pop in to make myself a cuppa"

Indeed. Because this infringes on my freedom to quiet enjoyment of my own property. As I said, freedom is not absolute and is always tempered by the rights and freedoms of others. In this case my property rights outweigh your right to freedom of movement.

In your example of sides of the road to drive on, there is a clear benefit in this restriction on our freedom for everyone - safety and smooth(er) traffic flow.

Can you outline what benefits you think a ban on all face covering in public would bring? How would you define the specific prohibited garments?
@Jabbadad "Be Careful what you wish for? well I wish for all people to be considerate to the Country you live in, to all those you come into contact with and are aware of, understand and even comply with their Rules & Regulations and not distablise by demanding these seeemingly harmfull demands of total freedom to do whatesoever we want. " Being considerate to the country you live in means respecting its laws and traditions.There is no prohibition in English law against covering your face in public. Therefore our traditions say it is a freedom for you to enjoy. Why would you seek to restrict this freedom? What are the benefits that will flow from this? Regarding wearing a veil as a harmful demand for total freedom seems a bit of an overreaction to me. That's just my opinion and you clearly feel strongly about it and I'd genuinely like to understand what harm you think it does. "I would not expect to just open your front door and pop in to make myself a cuppa" Indeed. Because this infringes on my freedom to quiet enjoyment of my own property. As I said, freedom is not absolute and is always tempered by the rights and freedoms of others. In this case my property rights outweigh your right to freedom of movement. In your example of sides of the road to drive on, there is a clear benefit in this restriction on our freedom for everyone - safety and smooth(er) traffic flow. Can you outline what benefits you think a ban on all face covering in public would bring? How would you define the specific prohibited garments? walkerno5
  • Score: 5

1:54pm Fri 20 Sep 13

Omicron says...

If a person you are dealing with, i.e a health care worker, insists on wearing a veil for whatever reason, then equally you should have the right to refuse to deal with that person until the veil is removed without fear of retribution. End of.......
If a person you are dealing with, i.e a health care worker, insists on wearing a veil for whatever reason, then equally you should have the right to refuse to deal with that person until the veil is removed without fear of retribution. End of....... Omicron
  • Score: 4

2:48pm Fri 20 Sep 13

walkerno5 says...

"If a person you are dealing with, i.e a health care worker, insists on wearing a veil for whatever reason, then equally you should have the right to refuse to deal with that person until the veil is removed without fear of retribution. End of......."

I agree entirely. But many posters here are suggesting that the wearing of a veil should be banned outright, everywhere, which sounds a bit restrictive to me.

It's extremely unlikely to ever come up for the vast majority of people anyway isn't it? When is the last time you saw a veiled medical worker?
"If a person you are dealing with, i.e a health care worker, insists on wearing a veil for whatever reason, then equally you should have the right to refuse to deal with that person until the veil is removed without fear of retribution. End of......." I agree entirely. But many posters here are suggesting that the wearing of a veil should be banned outright, everywhere, which sounds a bit restrictive to me. It's extremely unlikely to ever come up for the vast majority of people anyway isn't it? When is the last time you saw a veiled medical worker? walkerno5
  • Score: 3

6:27pm Fri 20 Sep 13

G R Hart says...

When in Rome ? So if you wear a veil you must be a foreigner , Deary deary me, hasn't multiculturism reached Kidderminster yet? A tiny proportion of women wear the veil, is it really such an issue in the daily lives of most people in the UK, I very much doubt it.
When in Rome ? So if you wear a veil you must be a foreigner , Deary deary me, hasn't multiculturism reached Kidderminster yet? A tiny proportion of women wear the veil, is it really such an issue in the daily lives of most people in the UK, I very much doubt it. G R Hart
  • Score: 0

6:27pm Fri 20 Sep 13

Redhillman says...

Just a thought but if it were any other religion, would it be just an issue or cause such a stir? I suspect that there is a hint of anti-Islam feeling which is leading to some calls for veils to be banned rather than other reasons. Lets be frank, and be honest, but how many of us like Islam? I suspect not many, and I suspect many would prefer to see many Muslim people leave the UK. True?
Just a thought but if it were any other religion, would it be just an issue or cause such a stir? I suspect that there is a hint of anti-Islam feeling which is leading to some calls for veils to be banned rather than other reasons. Lets be frank, and be honest, but how many of us like Islam? I suspect not many, and I suspect many would prefer to see many Muslim people leave the UK. True? Redhillman
  • Score: 1

8:59pm Fri 20 Sep 13

PrivateSi says...

Banning veils and crosses and fining people for using the n or p word when drunk - It's your DRACON SOCIETY, British Dracons... I don't care if all doctors ware face masks, caps and gowns, all day long - especially in the flu season - hell, gas masks are alright by me, SUPERBUGGERS! .. Seriously, If an organisation wants to be the fashion police and religion police why even try to stop them, I mean, Corps, Cops and The DRACON-DRACUL RULE, OK... They'll be shirts and ties policies next for ALL BLOKES...! Ware as your told or you're SACKED!!
Banning veils and crosses and fining people for using the n or p word when drunk - It's your DRACON SOCIETY, British Dracons... I don't care if all doctors ware face masks, caps and gowns, all day long - especially in the flu season - hell, gas masks are alright by me, SUPERBUGGERS! .. Seriously, If an organisation wants to be the fashion police and religion police why even try to stop them, I mean, Corps, Cops and The DRACON-DRACUL RULE, OK... They'll be shirts and ties policies next for ALL BLOKES...! Ware as your told or you're SACKED!! PrivateSi
  • Score: -6

9:38pm Fri 20 Sep 13

The Doosra says...

Redhillman wrote:
Just a thought but if it were any other religion, would it be just an issue or cause such a stir? I suspect that there is a hint of anti-Islam feeling which is leading to some calls for veils to be banned rather than other reasons. Lets be frank, and be honest, but how many of us like Islam? I suspect not many, and I suspect many would prefer to see many Muslim people leave the UK. True?
What a very cleverly worded post: sadly for you - not all of us are duped by your word-play.
[quote][p][bold]Redhillman[/bold] wrote: Just a thought but if it were any other religion, would it be just an issue or cause such a stir? I suspect that there is a hint of anti-Islam feeling which is leading to some calls for veils to be banned rather than other reasons. Lets be frank, and be honest, but how many of us like Islam? I suspect not many, and I suspect many would prefer to see many Muslim people leave the UK. True?[/p][/quote]What a very cleverly worded post: sadly for you - not all of us are duped by your word-play. The Doosra
  • Score: -2

10:52am Sat 21 Sep 13

iamthebinman says...

Personally, I just don't feel at all offended or threatened by women in veils. I would prefer to see your face when you talk to me, but do you know what, it just doesn't matter enough to worry about.

(five years working in a practice in Mosley gave me ample time and experience to come to this conclusion.)
Personally, I just don't feel at all offended or threatened by women in veils. I would prefer to see your face when you talk to me, but do you know what, it just doesn't matter enough to worry about. (five years working in a practice in Mosley gave me ample time and experience to come to this conclusion.) iamthebinman
  • Score: 1

7:36pm Sat 21 Sep 13

The Doosra says...

iamthebinman wrote:
Personally, I just don't feel at all offended or threatened by women in veils. I would prefer to see your face when you talk to me, but do you know what, it just doesn't matter enough to worry about.

(five years working in a practice in Mosley gave me ample time and experience to come to this conclusion.)
Quite, if I'm having my blood pressure taken or some similar test, then it doesn't matter one wit what the tester is wearing. On the other hand, if I'm being told some important information about a potential condition then I would prefer to see the face of the person imparting the information.
[quote][p][bold]iamthebinman[/bold] wrote: Personally, I just don't feel at all offended or threatened by women in veils. I would prefer to see your face when you talk to me, but do you know what, it just doesn't matter enough to worry about. (five years working in a practice in Mosley gave me ample time and experience to come to this conclusion.)[/p][/quote]Quite, if I'm having my blood pressure taken or some similar test, then it doesn't matter one wit what the tester is wearing. On the other hand, if I'm being told some important information about a potential condition then I would prefer to see the face of the person imparting the information. The Doosra
  • Score: 0

1:37pm Sun 22 Sep 13

garysparrow says...

They come here and want to do what they want yet if we go to there country we cant build a church or walk down the street how we would like to, so why should we allow them over here?
They come here and want to do what they want yet if we go to there country we cant build a church or walk down the street how we would like to, so why should we allow them over here? garysparrow
  • Score: -1

2:57pm Sun 22 Sep 13

The Doosra says...

Who's they?
Who's they? The Doosra
  • Score: 1

4:04pm Sun 22 Sep 13

pinkfluff says...

The Doosra wrote:
Who's they?
LOL love it.

I'm so BORED of all this blah blah over and over again, constantly being stirred up by the press.

I don't care what people want to wear....it's personal choice. If you apply for a job with a dress code then you have to abide by it or it won't be equality otherwise. Why complicate it all when it can and should be straightforward.
[quote][p][bold]The Doosra[/bold] wrote: Who's they?[/p][/quote]LOL love it. I'm so BORED of all this blah blah over and over again, constantly being stirred up by the press. I don't care what people want to wear....it's personal choice. If you apply for a job with a dress code then you have to abide by it or it won't be equality otherwise. Why complicate it all when it can and should be straightforward. pinkfluff
  • Score: 0

5:08pm Sun 22 Sep 13

Chronos says...

Trifling and petty arguments about who should wear what and where will be but a distant memory within three or four generations.

By the turn of the next century, possibly sooner, every woman in this country will be forced to cover for fear of offending the Muslim majority. Or more likely still, because the UK will be subject to The Sharia.

If you think that's alarmist, do some proper research. And not by listening to the rants of racists and xenophobes, but by reading and studying. Look up 'Dhimmi' in the dictionary if you're not aware of its meaning, and prepare your grandchildren to one day take on the role.

Every appeasement, forfeit and conciliation we make now will one day come back to haunt us. This week it's just "veils in hospitals", next week it will be something else. And the week after that something else. Have you ever noticed that such appeasement and acquiescence is ALWAYS a one-way street?

The trouble is, as long as this country remains a democracy, the will of the majority will eventually prevail, and these things will come to pass. Forget immigration, just look at the difference in current birth-rates between Muslims and non-Muslims in this country.

Some might argue that it's already too late to stop this eventuality. I mean, what could possibly be done democratically to stop it?
Trifling and petty arguments about who should wear what and where will be but a distant memory within three or four generations. By the turn of the next century, possibly sooner, every woman in this country will be forced to cover for fear of offending the Muslim majority. Or more likely still, because the UK will be subject to The Sharia. If you think that's alarmist, do some proper research. And not by listening to the rants of racists and xenophobes, but by reading and studying. Look up 'Dhimmi' in the dictionary if you're not aware of its meaning, and prepare your grandchildren to one day take on the role. Every appeasement, forfeit and conciliation we make now will one day come back to haunt us. This week it's just "veils in hospitals", next week it will be something else. And the week after that something else. Have you ever noticed that such appeasement and acquiescence is ALWAYS a one-way street? The trouble is, as long as this country remains a democracy, the will of the majority will eventually prevail, and these things will come to pass. Forget immigration, just look at the difference in current birth-rates between Muslims and non-Muslims in this country. Some might argue that it's already too late to stop this eventuality. I mean, what could possibly be done democratically to stop it? Chronos
  • Score: -6

6:51pm Sun 22 Sep 13

Jabbadad says...

To acheive anything democratically you have to have political leaders who actually are representative of this country, and we have a bunch of useless morons who only think of the party and what they personally can obtain, for themselves and their leaders.
So unless we have serious changes we are going to be in dire straits with the current crop of politicians from Labour or Tory.
We are letting our future generations down badly.
To acheive anything democratically you have to have political leaders who actually are representative of this country, and we have a bunch of useless morons who only think of the party and what they personally can obtain, for themselves and their leaders. So unless we have serious changes we are going to be in dire straits with the current crop of politicians from Labour or Tory. We are letting our future generations down badly. Jabbadad
  • Score: 0

3:57am Mon 23 Sep 13

mauro balbino says...

Courage to take brave decisions as, for example, to recognize that in Koran the ultimate aim is the islamization, the prophet was a warrior raising an ever expanded jihad, that in shariah there is no such thing as freedom of speech, of choice, of thinking and, if this Christian Kingdom developed in a tolerant society, fair for women, immigrants and believers of other faiths, the risk of abuse is greater and the corruption from inside easier.

In a previous comment, someone reminded us of the concept of "dhimmi" and even suggested a little research. What is not so easy and comfortable is to check it working. An old concept that is mostly ignored or distorted by intolerant people which would be happier to bring it to UK, whilst here we argue among ourselves about the better way to be... tolerant.
Courage to take brave decisions as, for example, to recognize that in Koran the ultimate aim is the islamization, the prophet was a warrior raising an ever expanded jihad, that in shariah there is no such thing as freedom of speech, of choice, of thinking and, if this Christian Kingdom developed in a tolerant society, fair for women, immigrants and believers of other faiths, the risk of abuse is greater and the corruption from inside easier. In a previous comment, someone reminded us of the concept of "dhimmi" and even suggested a little research. What is not so easy and comfortable is to check it working. An old concept that is mostly ignored or distorted by intolerant people which would be happier to bring it to UK, whilst here we argue among ourselves about the better way to be... tolerant. mauro balbino
  • Score: 0

12:30pm Mon 23 Sep 13

pinkfluff says...

Chronos wrote:
Trifling and petty arguments about who should wear what and where will be but a distant memory within three or four generations.

By the turn of the next century, possibly sooner, every woman in this country will be forced to cover for fear of offending the Muslim majority. Or more likely still, because the UK will be subject to The Sharia.

If you think that's alarmist, do some proper research. And not by listening to the rants of racists and xenophobes, but by reading and studying. Look up 'Dhimmi' in the dictionary if you're not aware of its meaning, and prepare your grandchildren to one day take on the role.

Every appeasement, forfeit and conciliation we make now will one day come back to haunt us. This week it's just "veils in hospitals", next week it will be something else. And the week after that something else. Have you ever noticed that such appeasement and acquiescence is ALWAYS a one-way street?

The trouble is, as long as this country remains a democracy, the will of the majority will eventually prevail, and these things will come to pass. Forget immigration, just look at the difference in current birth-rates between Muslims and non-Muslims in this country.

Some might argue that it's already too late to stop this eventuality. I mean, what could possibly be done democratically to stop it?
That sounds like a lot of paranoid inciting horse **** to me.
[quote][p][bold]Chronos[/bold] wrote: Trifling and petty arguments about who should wear what and where will be but a distant memory within three or four generations. By the turn of the next century, possibly sooner, every woman in this country will be forced to cover for fear of offending the Muslim majority. Or more likely still, because the UK will be subject to The Sharia. If you think that's alarmist, do some proper research. And not by listening to the rants of racists and xenophobes, but by reading and studying. Look up 'Dhimmi' in the dictionary if you're not aware of its meaning, and prepare your grandchildren to one day take on the role. Every appeasement, forfeit and conciliation we make now will one day come back to haunt us. This week it's just "veils in hospitals", next week it will be something else. And the week after that something else. Have you ever noticed that such appeasement and acquiescence is ALWAYS a one-way street? The trouble is, as long as this country remains a democracy, the will of the majority will eventually prevail, and these things will come to pass. Forget immigration, just look at the difference in current birth-rates between Muslims and non-Muslims in this country. Some might argue that it's already too late to stop this eventuality. I mean, what could possibly be done democratically to stop it?[/p][/quote]That sounds like a lot of paranoid inciting horse **** to me. pinkfluff
  • Score: 1

5:55pm Mon 23 Sep 13

Chronos says...

pinkfluff wrote:
Chronos wrote:
Trifling and petty arguments about who should wear what and where will be but a distant memory within three or four generations.

By the turn of the next century, possibly sooner, every woman in this country will be forced to cover for fear of offending the Muslim majority. Or more likely still, because the UK will be subject to The Sharia.

If you think that's alarmist, do some proper research. And not by listening to the rants of racists and xenophobes, but by reading and studying. Look up 'Dhimmi' in the dictionary if you're not aware of its meaning, and prepare your grandchildren to one day take on the role.

Every appeasement, forfeit and conciliation we make now will one day come back to haunt us. This week it's just "veils in hospitals", next week it will be something else. And the week after that something else. Have you ever noticed that such appeasement and acquiescence is ALWAYS a one-way street?

The trouble is, as long as this country remains a democracy, the will of the majority will eventually prevail, and these things will come to pass. Forget immigration, just look at the difference in current birth-rates between Muslims and non-Muslims in this country.

Some might argue that it's already too late to stop this eventuality. I mean, what could possibly be done democratically to stop it?
That sounds like a lot of paranoid inciting horse **** to me.
Logical and intelligent debate not your strong point then pinkfluff?

Firstly, let me take exception to your use of the word "paranoid". Would I be correct in assuming that the inference you're trying to make is that I'm afraid of something that's not really there? If that's the case, let me assure you that I'm just 'concerned' at the moment, and I do believe, as outlined in my previous post, that there is something to be concerned about.

Secondly, I have to ask you exactly what you mean by "inciting"? I think you'll agree that on its own, it's a pretty vague term. It's much better used when it's qualified with a subject and a verb or action for them to perform. Anyway, that being said, I think I understand the connotation you were attempting to convey. As it happens, I don't believe I said anything that could possibly incite anyone to do anything. If you read it that way, then I apologise for not being succinct enough.

My intention was merely to point out the facts. If you disagree with any of those facts, that's absolutely fine. However, I believe I can back those facts up using current data and predicted trends. If you can refute them with contrasting data, I'd be happy to look at them, and any other supporting evidence you'd like to bring to the table.

The more subjective parts of my post are just that - my opinions; and again, I'm more than happy for anyone to disagree with me and enter into a productive discourse.

If you genuinely believe that my general points about Muslims one day becoming a voting majority in this country, and the subsequent implications for non-Muslims, are incorrect, then at least have the common decency to refute it with projected birth-rate and population projections and statistics. To simply resort to registering your disagreement with me by describing my opinion as horse**** really doesn't advance the discussion, and certainly doesn't do your side of the argument, whatever that is, any good at all.
[quote][p][bold]pinkfluff[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Chronos[/bold] wrote: Trifling and petty arguments about who should wear what and where will be but a distant memory within three or four generations. By the turn of the next century, possibly sooner, every woman in this country will be forced to cover for fear of offending the Muslim majority. Or more likely still, because the UK will be subject to The Sharia. If you think that's alarmist, do some proper research. And not by listening to the rants of racists and xenophobes, but by reading and studying. Look up 'Dhimmi' in the dictionary if you're not aware of its meaning, and prepare your grandchildren to one day take on the role. Every appeasement, forfeit and conciliation we make now will one day come back to haunt us. This week it's just "veils in hospitals", next week it will be something else. And the week after that something else. Have you ever noticed that such appeasement and acquiescence is ALWAYS a one-way street? The trouble is, as long as this country remains a democracy, the will of the majority will eventually prevail, and these things will come to pass. Forget immigration, just look at the difference in current birth-rates between Muslims and non-Muslims in this country. Some might argue that it's already too late to stop this eventuality. I mean, what could possibly be done democratically to stop it?[/p][/quote]That sounds like a lot of paranoid inciting horse **** to me.[/p][/quote]Logical and intelligent debate not your strong point then pinkfluff? Firstly, let me take exception to your use of the word "paranoid". Would I be correct in assuming that the inference you're trying to make is that I'm afraid of something that's not really there? If that's the case, let me assure you that I'm just 'concerned' at the moment, and I do believe, as outlined in my previous post, that there is something to be concerned about. Secondly, I have to ask you exactly what you mean by "inciting"? I think you'll agree that on its own, it's a pretty vague term. It's much better used when it's qualified with a subject and a verb or action for them to perform. Anyway, that being said, I think I understand the connotation you were attempting to convey. As it happens, I don't believe I said anything that could possibly incite anyone to do anything. If you read it that way, then I apologise for not being succinct enough. My intention was merely to point out the facts. If you disagree with any of those facts, that's absolutely fine. However, I believe I can back those facts up using current data and predicted trends. If you can refute them with contrasting data, I'd be happy to look at them, and any other supporting evidence you'd like to bring to the table. The more subjective parts of my post are just that - my opinions; and again, I'm more than happy for anyone to disagree with me and enter into a productive discourse. If you genuinely believe that my general points about Muslims one day becoming a voting majority in this country, and the subsequent implications for non-Muslims, are incorrect, then at least have the common decency to refute it with projected birth-rate and population projections and statistics. To simply resort to registering your disagreement with me by describing my opinion as horse**** really doesn't advance the discussion, and certainly doesn't do your side of the argument, whatever that is, any good at all. Chronos
  • Score: -1

2:16pm Tue 24 Sep 13

Vox populi says...

The facts are there. Our tolerence has put us number one on the immigration list for cultures who have much higher birth rates than what was once the majority. I don't care, I will be dead. :) It is worth noting that Birmingham, our second largest city is now a minority, majority city (if that makes sense.)

Religion has historically been used to control the populations of countries hand in hand with laws, (its kinda handy for that.) Religion is still a focal point in minority groups lives as it has declined in the white UK population along with the increase in the standard of education ;) As we see a minority majority laws will accomodate and change.... which brings us back to tolerance. Its evolution of a population demographic, quite simple.
The facts are there. Our tolerence has put us number one on the immigration list for cultures who have much higher birth rates than what was once the majority. I don't care, I will be dead. :) It is worth noting that Birmingham, our second largest city is now a minority, majority city (if that makes sense.) Religion has historically been used to control the populations of countries hand in hand with laws, (its kinda handy for that.) Religion is still a focal point in minority groups lives as it has declined in the white UK population along with the increase in the standard of education ;) As we see a minority majority laws will accomodate and change.... which brings us back to tolerance. Its evolution of a population demographic, quite simple. Vox populi
  • Score: 0

12:17pm Wed 25 Sep 13

pinkfluff says...

Chronos wrote:
pinkfluff wrote:
Chronos wrote: Trifling and petty arguments about who should wear what and where will be but a distant memory within three or four generations. By the turn of the next century, possibly sooner, every woman in this country will be forced to cover for fear of offending the Muslim majority. Or more likely still, because the UK will be subject to The Sharia. If you think that's alarmist, do some proper research. And not by listening to the rants of racists and xenophobes, but by reading and studying. Look up 'Dhimmi' in the dictionary if you're not aware of its meaning, and prepare your grandchildren to one day take on the role. Every appeasement, forfeit and conciliation we make now will one day come back to haunt us. This week it's just "veils in hospitals", next week it will be something else. And the week after that something else. Have you ever noticed that such appeasement and acquiescence is ALWAYS a one-way street? The trouble is, as long as this country remains a democracy, the will of the majority will eventually prevail, and these things will come to pass. Forget immigration, just look at the difference in current birth-rates between Muslims and non-Muslims in this country. Some might argue that it's already too late to stop this eventuality. I mean, what could possibly be done democratically to stop it?
That sounds like a lot of paranoid inciting horse **** to me.
Logical and intelligent debate not your strong point then pinkfluff? Firstly, let me take exception to your use of the word "paranoid". Would I be correct in assuming that the inference you're trying to make is that I'm afraid of something that's not really there? If that's the case, let me assure you that I'm just 'concerned' at the moment, and I do believe, as outlined in my previous post, that there is something to be concerned about. Secondly, I have to ask you exactly what you mean by "inciting"? I think you'll agree that on its own, it's a pretty vague term. It's much better used when it's qualified with a subject and a verb or action for them to perform. Anyway, that being said, I think I understand the connotation you were attempting to convey. As it happens, I don't believe I said anything that could possibly incite anyone to do anything. If you read it that way, then I apologise for not being succinct enough. My intention was merely to point out the facts. If you disagree with any of those facts, that's absolutely fine. However, I believe I can back those facts up using current data and predicted trends. If you can refute them with contrasting data, I'd be happy to look at them, and any other supporting evidence you'd like to bring to the table. The more subjective parts of my post are just that - my opinions; and again, I'm more than happy for anyone to disagree with me and enter into a productive discourse. If you genuinely believe that my general points about Muslims one day becoming a voting majority in this country, and the subsequent implications for non-Muslims, are incorrect, then at least have the common decency to refute it with projected birth-rate and population projections and statistics. To simply resort to registering your disagreement with me by describing my opinion as horse**** really doesn't advance the discussion, and certainly doesn't do your side of the argument, whatever that is, any good at all.
Nope not here for a debate.....just my opinions and to put my tuppence worth in. Btw opinions don't need facts and figures.

I am fed up with the whole "BEWARE JONNY FOREIGNER" garbage that steadily goes around. I don't agree with anything you have to say and to debate that would be a bit pointless.

Thanks for picking up on my grammer......I bow to your obvious superiority lol.

No need to be concerned imo -the vast majority of Muslims are lovely people who want the same from life as most people on the planet.
[quote][p][bold]Chronos[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pinkfluff[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Chronos[/bold] wrote: Trifling and petty arguments about who should wear what and where will be but a distant memory within three or four generations. By the turn of the next century, possibly sooner, every woman in this country will be forced to cover for fear of offending the Muslim majority. Or more likely still, because the UK will be subject to The Sharia. If you think that's alarmist, do some proper research. And not by listening to the rants of racists and xenophobes, but by reading and studying. Look up 'Dhimmi' in the dictionary if you're not aware of its meaning, and prepare your grandchildren to one day take on the role. Every appeasement, forfeit and conciliation we make now will one day come back to haunt us. This week it's just "veils in hospitals", next week it will be something else. And the week after that something else. Have you ever noticed that such appeasement and acquiescence is ALWAYS a one-way street? The trouble is, as long as this country remains a democracy, the will of the majority will eventually prevail, and these things will come to pass. Forget immigration, just look at the difference in current birth-rates between Muslims and non-Muslims in this country. Some might argue that it's already too late to stop this eventuality. I mean, what could possibly be done democratically to stop it?[/p][/quote]That sounds like a lot of paranoid inciting horse **** to me.[/p][/quote]Logical and intelligent debate not your strong point then pinkfluff? Firstly, let me take exception to your use of the word "paranoid". Would I be correct in assuming that the inference you're trying to make is that I'm afraid of something that's not really there? If that's the case, let me assure you that I'm just 'concerned' at the moment, and I do believe, as outlined in my previous post, that there is something to be concerned about. Secondly, I have to ask you exactly what you mean by "inciting"? I think you'll agree that on its own, it's a pretty vague term. It's much better used when it's qualified with a subject and a verb or action for them to perform. Anyway, that being said, I think I understand the connotation you were attempting to convey. As it happens, I don't believe I said anything that could possibly incite anyone to do anything. If you read it that way, then I apologise for not being succinct enough. My intention was merely to point out the facts. If you disagree with any of those facts, that's absolutely fine. However, I believe I can back those facts up using current data and predicted trends. If you can refute them with contrasting data, I'd be happy to look at them, and any other supporting evidence you'd like to bring to the table. The more subjective parts of my post are just that - my opinions; and again, I'm more than happy for anyone to disagree with me and enter into a productive discourse. If you genuinely believe that my general points about Muslims one day becoming a voting majority in this country, and the subsequent implications for non-Muslims, are incorrect, then at least have the common decency to refute it with projected birth-rate and population projections and statistics. To simply resort to registering your disagreement with me by describing my opinion as horse**** really doesn't advance the discussion, and certainly doesn't do your side of the argument, whatever that is, any good at all.[/p][/quote]Nope not here for a debate.....just my opinions and to put my tuppence worth in. Btw opinions don't need facts and figures. I am fed up with the whole "BEWARE JONNY FOREIGNER" garbage that steadily goes around. I don't agree with anything you have to say and to debate that would be a bit pointless. Thanks for picking up on my grammer......I bow to your obvious superiority lol. No need to be concerned imo -the vast majority of Muslims are lovely people who want the same from life as most people on the planet. pinkfluff
  • Score: 0

4:05pm Wed 25 Sep 13

Chronos says...

pinkfluff wrote:
Chronos wrote:
pinkfluff wrote:
Chronos wrote: Trifling and petty arguments about who should wear what and where will be but a distant memory within three or four generations. By the turn of the next century, possibly sooner, every woman in this country will be forced to cover for fear of offending the Muslim majority. Or more likely still, because the UK will be subject to The Sharia. If you think that's alarmist, do some proper research. And not by listening to the rants of racists and xenophobes, but by reading and studying. Look up 'Dhimmi' in the dictionary if you're not aware of its meaning, and prepare your grandchildren to one day take on the role. Every appeasement, forfeit and conciliation we make now will one day come back to haunt us. This week it's just "veils in hospitals", next week it will be something else. And the week after that something else. Have you ever noticed that such appeasement and acquiescence is ALWAYS a one-way street? The trouble is, as long as this country remains a democracy, the will of the majority will eventually prevail, and these things will come to pass. Forget immigration, just look at the difference in current birth-rates between Muslims and non-Muslims in this country. Some might argue that it's already too late to stop this eventuality. I mean, what could possibly be done democratically to stop it?
That sounds like a lot of paranoid inciting horse **** to me.
Logical and intelligent debate not your strong point then pinkfluff? Firstly, let me take exception to your use of the word "paranoid". Would I be correct in assuming that the inference you're trying to make is that I'm afraid of something that's not really there? If that's the case, let me assure you that I'm just 'concerned' at the moment, and I do believe, as outlined in my previous post, that there is something to be concerned about. Secondly, I have to ask you exactly what you mean by "inciting"? I think you'll agree that on its own, it's a pretty vague term. It's much better used when it's qualified with a subject and a verb or action for them to perform. Anyway, that being said, I think I understand the connotation you were attempting to convey. As it happens, I don't believe I said anything that could possibly incite anyone to do anything. If you read it that way, then I apologise for not being succinct enough. My intention was merely to point out the facts. If you disagree with any of those facts, that's absolutely fine. However, I believe I can back those facts up using current data and predicted trends. If you can refute them with contrasting data, I'd be happy to look at them, and any other supporting evidence you'd like to bring to the table. The more subjective parts of my post are just that - my opinions; and again, I'm more than happy for anyone to disagree with me and enter into a productive discourse. If you genuinely believe that my general points about Muslims one day becoming a voting majority in this country, and the subsequent implications for non-Muslims, are incorrect, then at least have the common decency to refute it with projected birth-rate and population projections and statistics. To simply resort to registering your disagreement with me by describing my opinion as horse**** really doesn't advance the discussion, and certainly doesn't do your side of the argument, whatever that is, any good at all.
Nope not here for a debate.....just my opinions and to put my tuppence worth in. Btw opinions don't need facts and figures.

I am fed up with the whole "BEWARE JONNY FOREIGNER" garbage that steadily goes around. I don't agree with anything you have to say and to debate that would be a bit pointless.

Thanks for picking up on my grammer......I bow to your obvious superiority lol.

No need to be concerned imo -the vast majority of Muslims are lovely people who want the same from life as most people on the planet.
@pinkfluff

pinkfluff said: "Btw opinions don't need facts and figures."

I rest my case.
[quote][p][bold]pinkfluff[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Chronos[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pinkfluff[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Chronos[/bold] wrote: Trifling and petty arguments about who should wear what and where will be but a distant memory within three or four generations. By the turn of the next century, possibly sooner, every woman in this country will be forced to cover for fear of offending the Muslim majority. Or more likely still, because the UK will be subject to The Sharia. If you think that's alarmist, do some proper research. And not by listening to the rants of racists and xenophobes, but by reading and studying. Look up 'Dhimmi' in the dictionary if you're not aware of its meaning, and prepare your grandchildren to one day take on the role. Every appeasement, forfeit and conciliation we make now will one day come back to haunt us. This week it's just "veils in hospitals", next week it will be something else. And the week after that something else. Have you ever noticed that such appeasement and acquiescence is ALWAYS a one-way street? The trouble is, as long as this country remains a democracy, the will of the majority will eventually prevail, and these things will come to pass. Forget immigration, just look at the difference in current birth-rates between Muslims and non-Muslims in this country. Some might argue that it's already too late to stop this eventuality. I mean, what could possibly be done democratically to stop it?[/p][/quote]That sounds like a lot of paranoid inciting horse **** to me.[/p][/quote]Logical and intelligent debate not your strong point then pinkfluff? Firstly, let me take exception to your use of the word "paranoid". Would I be correct in assuming that the inference you're trying to make is that I'm afraid of something that's not really there? If that's the case, let me assure you that I'm just 'concerned' at the moment, and I do believe, as outlined in my previous post, that there is something to be concerned about. Secondly, I have to ask you exactly what you mean by "inciting"? I think you'll agree that on its own, it's a pretty vague term. It's much better used when it's qualified with a subject and a verb or action for them to perform. Anyway, that being said, I think I understand the connotation you were attempting to convey. As it happens, I don't believe I said anything that could possibly incite anyone to do anything. If you read it that way, then I apologise for not being succinct enough. My intention was merely to point out the facts. If you disagree with any of those facts, that's absolutely fine. However, I believe I can back those facts up using current data and predicted trends. If you can refute them with contrasting data, I'd be happy to look at them, and any other supporting evidence you'd like to bring to the table. The more subjective parts of my post are just that - my opinions; and again, I'm more than happy for anyone to disagree with me and enter into a productive discourse. If you genuinely believe that my general points about Muslims one day becoming a voting majority in this country, and the subsequent implications for non-Muslims, are incorrect, then at least have the common decency to refute it with projected birth-rate and population projections and statistics. To simply resort to registering your disagreement with me by describing my opinion as horse**** really doesn't advance the discussion, and certainly doesn't do your side of the argument, whatever that is, any good at all.[/p][/quote]Nope not here for a debate.....just my opinions and to put my tuppence worth in. Btw opinions don't need facts and figures. I am fed up with the whole "BEWARE JONNY FOREIGNER" garbage that steadily goes around. I don't agree with anything you have to say and to debate that would be a bit pointless. Thanks for picking up on my grammer......I bow to your obvious superiority lol. No need to be concerned imo -the vast majority of Muslims are lovely people who want the same from life as most people on the planet.[/p][/quote]@pinkfluff pinkfluff said: "Btw opinions don't need facts and figures." I rest my case. Chronos
  • Score: 0

6:06pm Wed 25 Sep 13

pinkfluff says...

Chronos wrote:
pinkfluff wrote:
Chronos wrote:
pinkfluff wrote:
Chronos wrote: Trifling and petty arguments about who should wear what and where will be but a distant memory within three or four generations. By the turn of the next century, possibly sooner, every woman in this country will be forced to cover for fear of offending the Muslim majority. Or more likely still, because the UK will be subject to The Sharia. If you think that's alarmist, do some proper research. And not by listening to the rants of racists and xenophobes, but by reading and studying. Look up 'Dhimmi' in the dictionary if you're not aware of its meaning, and prepare your grandchildren to one day take on the role. Every appeasement, forfeit and conciliation we make now will one day come back to haunt us. This week it's just "veils in hospitals", next week it will be something else. And the week after that something else. Have you ever noticed that such appeasement and acquiescence is ALWAYS a one-way street? The trouble is, as long as this country remains a democracy, the will of the majority will eventually prevail, and these things will come to pass. Forget immigration, just look at the difference in current birth-rates between Muslims and non-Muslims in this country. Some might argue that it's already too late to stop this eventuality. I mean, what could possibly be done democratically to stop it?
That sounds like a lot of paranoid inciting horse **** to me.
Logical and intelligent debate not your strong point then pinkfluff? Firstly, let me take exception to your use of the word "paranoid". Would I be correct in assuming that the inference you're trying to make is that I'm afraid of something that's not really there? If that's the case, let me assure you that I'm just 'concerned' at the moment, and I do believe, as outlined in my previous post, that there is something to be concerned about. Secondly, I have to ask you exactly what you mean by "inciting"? I think you'll agree that on its own, it's a pretty vague term. It's much better used when it's qualified with a subject and a verb or action for them to perform. Anyway, that being said, I think I understand the connotation you were attempting to convey. As it happens, I don't believe I said anything that could possibly incite anyone to do anything. If you read it that way, then I apologise for not being succinct enough. My intention was merely to point out the facts. If you disagree with any of those facts, that's absolutely fine. However, I believe I can back those facts up using current data and predicted trends. If you can refute them with contrasting data, I'd be happy to look at them, and any other supporting evidence you'd like to bring to the table. The more subjective parts of my post are just that - my opinions; and again, I'm more than happy for anyone to disagree with me and enter into a productive discourse. If you genuinely believe that my general points about Muslims one day becoming a voting majority in this country, and the subsequent implications for non-Muslims, are incorrect, then at least have the common decency to refute it with projected birth-rate and population projections and statistics. To simply resort to registering your disagreement with me by describing my opinion as horse**** really doesn't advance the discussion, and certainly doesn't do your side of the argument, whatever that is, any good at all.
Nope not here for a debate.....just my opinions and to put my tuppence worth in. Btw opinions don't need facts and figures.

I am fed up with the whole "BEWARE JONNY FOREIGNER" garbage that steadily goes around. I don't agree with anything you have to say and to debate that would be a bit pointless.

Thanks for picking up on my grammer......I bow to your obvious superiority lol.

No need to be concerned imo -the vast majority of Muslims are lovely people who want the same from life as most people on the planet.
@pinkfluff

pinkfluff said: "Btw opinions don't need facts and figures."

I rest my case.
Awwwww that's nice that we can agree on something.


opinion n. belief or judgement held without actual proof; what one thinks on a particular point.
[quote][p][bold]Chronos[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pinkfluff[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Chronos[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pinkfluff[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Chronos[/bold] wrote: Trifling and petty arguments about who should wear what and where will be but a distant memory within three or four generations. By the turn of the next century, possibly sooner, every woman in this country will be forced to cover for fear of offending the Muslim majority. Or more likely still, because the UK will be subject to The Sharia. If you think that's alarmist, do some proper research. And not by listening to the rants of racists and xenophobes, but by reading and studying. Look up 'Dhimmi' in the dictionary if you're not aware of its meaning, and prepare your grandchildren to one day take on the role. Every appeasement, forfeit and conciliation we make now will one day come back to haunt us. This week it's just "veils in hospitals", next week it will be something else. And the week after that something else. Have you ever noticed that such appeasement and acquiescence is ALWAYS a one-way street? The trouble is, as long as this country remains a democracy, the will of the majority will eventually prevail, and these things will come to pass. Forget immigration, just look at the difference in current birth-rates between Muslims and non-Muslims in this country. Some might argue that it's already too late to stop this eventuality. I mean, what could possibly be done democratically to stop it?[/p][/quote]That sounds like a lot of paranoid inciting horse **** to me.[/p][/quote]Logical and intelligent debate not your strong point then pinkfluff? Firstly, let me take exception to your use of the word "paranoid". Would I be correct in assuming that the inference you're trying to make is that I'm afraid of something that's not really there? If that's the case, let me assure you that I'm just 'concerned' at the moment, and I do believe, as outlined in my previous post, that there is something to be concerned about. Secondly, I have to ask you exactly what you mean by "inciting"? I think you'll agree that on its own, it's a pretty vague term. It's much better used when it's qualified with a subject and a verb or action for them to perform. Anyway, that being said, I think I understand the connotation you were attempting to convey. As it happens, I don't believe I said anything that could possibly incite anyone to do anything. If you read it that way, then I apologise for not being succinct enough. My intention was merely to point out the facts. If you disagree with any of those facts, that's absolutely fine. However, I believe I can back those facts up using current data and predicted trends. If you can refute them with contrasting data, I'd be happy to look at them, and any other supporting evidence you'd like to bring to the table. The more subjective parts of my post are just that - my opinions; and again, I'm more than happy for anyone to disagree with me and enter into a productive discourse. If you genuinely believe that my general points about Muslims one day becoming a voting majority in this country, and the subsequent implications for non-Muslims, are incorrect, then at least have the common decency to refute it with projected birth-rate and population projections and statistics. To simply resort to registering your disagreement with me by describing my opinion as horse**** really doesn't advance the discussion, and certainly doesn't do your side of the argument, whatever that is, any good at all.[/p][/quote]Nope not here for a debate.....just my opinions and to put my tuppence worth in. Btw opinions don't need facts and figures. I am fed up with the whole "BEWARE JONNY FOREIGNER" garbage that steadily goes around. I don't agree with anything you have to say and to debate that would be a bit pointless. Thanks for picking up on my grammer......I bow to your obvious superiority lol. No need to be concerned imo -the vast majority of Muslims are lovely people who want the same from life as most people on the planet.[/p][/quote]@pinkfluff pinkfluff said: "Btw opinions don't need facts and figures." I rest my case.[/p][/quote]Awwwww that's nice that we can agree on something. opinion n. belief or judgement held without actual proof; what one thinks on a particular point. pinkfluff
  • Score: 0

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