How can we stop them running wild? (From Worcester News)

It's so difficult sometimes to hold back the urge to give them a good hiding!
.
I was walking through the market last night when I got hit in the back by an errant football. Not even a sorry.
.
I'm only 29 now, but even back when I was younger we wouldn't be hoofing a football about in the middle of town with other people around, and we'd definitely be apologising if we accidentally hit anyone!

No different to anywhere else, we recently returned from york, which is a wonderful place, but witnessed two fights outside of pubs very early in the evening and also a group of children that set of a firework underneath a car parked outside the hotel in broad daylight. The reason some children decide to act like this? Because they know that they can get away with it. Where are the police on the beat in my opinion its comes down to that, again. Then when caught hand them a proper warning something financially debilitating would probably make them conduct themselves better, and if they cant pay it their parents pay it.

MrStJohns wrote:
No different to anywhere else, we recently returned from york, which is a wonderful place, but witnessed two fights outside of pubs very early in the evening and also a group of children that set of a firework underneath a car parked outside the hotel in broad daylight. The reason some children decide to act like this? Because they know that they can get away with it. Where are the police on the beat in my opinion its comes down to that, again. Then when caught hand them a proper warning something financially debilitating would probably make them conduct themselves better, and if they cant pay it their parents pay it.

If you do that then they will just hide their money and get their parents to pay, as most these children have single or weak minded parents they probably will. The solution lies in educating the parents, I mean there isn't exactly a manual that comes with the child is there, and it is the parents fault if their child is rude or delinquent so the parents are the ones that should be educated..

May I in all innocence suggest you pop along to the brand new police station located in I believe Castle St .I have been told there is a civilian who works there.!!! Get the number of a certain female inspector if you can. And recommend to her ,that she at versus times removes our 1 and only City police man from where ever ,Leave his hair dryer at home and perhaps petrol's the city streets.I personally over many many months of visiting haven't seen one in the city. Its only a suggestion!!!

The trouble with kids today, is they have no discipline, and know that they can get away with anything. If they are caught, nothing is done, you cannot blame the police, as to them its a waste of time, as to whats the point, because they are not punished, and basically thats why you never see them. I would like to see the birch brought back, that would stop them, but with overpaid Lawyers, ready to step in on their behalf, they would get compensation for the poor little dears, as its not their fault, you should have ducked, and you didn't,
its my personal view that lawyers should be paid no more than £20 per hour, and if they want to appeal
they pay that out of their own pocket, and if that became the law
you would see the crime rate fall.
Will that happen?, of course not, We the Public are stupid , and get what we deserve, for doing nothing about it.

Bring back the birch Worcesterman I'm with you on that one . Also the cane in schools. O dear I can already hear the whining,the gnashing of teeth and the sorrowful cries of the Do Gooders plus the PC mob on behalf of these poor little Wreckers sorry wretches.

Wow, I didn't know this website was time linked to the1900s! As this is just descending into craziness I will say only one thing, and that is what happens to the children with learning disabilities? If you bring back the cane then they will be hit every time they have to do anything because their not up to the standards of the other children. Oh, and I still stick by the fact that if parents were properly educated there would be not problem with wild children.

Chips020, Malvern

Chips! what a stupid responce to our letters,since when have you seen, a disabled kid throwing stones, eggs, etc, I cannot believe that I have read such silly statements, we were refering to the maniacs, that cause such trouble, do you know what annoys me more that anything, is when people like you comment with no answer to the problem, in how to stop this, but are quick to complain
when others try to respond.
You can think what you like about me, but my answer is still the birch and cane, because nothing else will unless you shoot them, it may come to that because the Police do nothing
and neither do our Supreme Government. I have never been interested in this talk about Shira Law,
but I tell you what they would stop it in a stroke.

Worcesterman wrote:
Chips020, Malvern

Chips! what a stupid responce to our letters,since when have you seen, a disabled kid throwing stones, eggs, etc, I cannot believe that I have read such silly statements, we were refering to the maniacs, that cause such trouble, do you know what annoys me more that anything, is when people like you comment with no answer to the problem, in how to stop this, but are quick to complain
when others try to respond.
You can think what you like about me, but my answer is still the birch and cane, because nothing else will unless you shoot them, it may come to that because the Police do nothing
and neither do our Supreme Government. I have never been interested in this talk about Shira Law,
but I tell you what they would stop it in a stroke.

I would like to start by saying that I did suggest a solution, educate the parents. I would also like to say that by disability i meant ones like dyslexia, and the ones that make children look look they are useless or antisocial. The cane is inhumane and unnecessary if parents would just get their act together. The answer is not to go back to the 1900s but to use modern understanding of psychology to make a difference, rather than just giving in to our barbaric need for dominance. This is the last i have to say, i refuse to ague this any more, if you want to throw away 100 year s of social evolution be my guest, but don't try and force it on the rest of us.

chips020
In reply to you chips, you said educate the Parents, just how do you do that? I really would like to know, that would never happen in a month of sundays.
Its so called psychology, that got us into all this trouble in the first place, they come along, with words 30 letters long, that you have a job pronouncing, saying 'ah' they do not understand what they are doing, its an illness, as far as I am concerned the medicine for that is the birch ,and cane, I had the cane at school, and it taught me a lesson.

Worcesterman wrote:
chips020
In reply to you chips, you said educate the Parents, just how do you do that? I really would like to know, that would never happen in a month of sundays.
Its so called psychology, that got us into all this trouble in the first place, they come along, with words 30 letters long, that you have a job pronouncing, saying 'ah' they do not understand what they are doing, its an illness, as far as I am concerned the medicine for that is the birch ,and cane, I had the cane at school, and it taught me a lesson.

What era are you from? the fact is that if you hit a child every time it does something that YOU think is wrong then you are just forcing your ideals on them, and also causing them to have many psychological problems later on, no mater how "good" they seem at the time. As soon as they leave home they will just do everything they weren't allowed to do before in stupid amounts. If you want to go hit a child go ahead, see how far it gets you.

Chips.
My era is, that I was then called a WarBabe, if that helps you.
I have a job understanding your rationale, In our time kids did not go around causing the trouble that they do now, I have come to the conclusion, that its people like you, with your psychological mumbo jumbo, letting these kids do what the hell they want, and all they have to say when caught, is blame their parents, for their poor upbringing, and your attitude is to say "Oh what a shame, poor dears, here have some sweeties".
You should wake up, and see the damage you are doing, learn a lesson
"Chips" the only way you are going to stop this, is to come down hard on them with discipline.

Worcesterman wrote:
Chips.
My era is, that I was then called a WarBabe, if that helps you.
I have a job understanding your rationale, In our time kids did not go around causing the trouble that they do now, I have come to the conclusion, that its people like you, with your psychological mumbo jumbo, letting these kids do what the hell they want, and all they have to say when caught, is blame their parents, for their poor upbringing, and your attitude is to say "Oh what a shame, poor dears, here have some sweeties".
You should wake up, and see the damage you are doing, learn a lesson
"Chips" the only way you are going to stop this, is to come down hard on them with discipline.

You are entitled to your opinion, but although that was perfectly valid in your time the world is different now, we need to grow up as a race, and no offence but it is not for your generation to decide how the world should be now, it is time for the current generation to take responsibility, and I'm afraid you probably wont ever see that but its natural for people to not like change, and there has been a heck of a lot of it recently. That is not to say that the worries you express are not valid, heck, sometimes I'm scared to be out after dark, but violence is not and never will be the answer.

p.s
For your information I'm studying that Psychology "mumbo jumbo" for my further education and I assure you it is a very studied field and has been for a while.

Chips020
"Chips",now, I know where you are coming from, you are actually studying Psychology, and thats the problem,you are taught to think in a different way, and no matter what I say I will always be wrong.
So I ask you what is the way you would go to stop these kids, doing what they are getting away with, because I certainly don't think you have an answer.

when i had my son at 20 years old i was judged, people just assumed i would raise a foul mouthed yob who sat on street corners drinking alcohol. My son is now 9 and i have raised him the same way my parents did with me and he is a polite respectful boy. If you sit your children in front of the tv or playing grand theft auto every day as i know a lot of wasters do then what do they expect from their little angels?
The only way to raise decent children is by setting an example to them which is why i work and show respect. It's not hard!!

mort wrote:
when i had my son at 20 years old i was judged, people just assumed i would raise a foul mouthed yob who sat on street corners drinking alcohol. My son is now 9 and i have raised him the same way my parents did with me and he is a polite respectful boy. If you sit your children in front of the tv or playing grand theft auto every day as i know a lot of wasters do then what do they expect from their little angels? The only way to raise decent children is by setting an example to them which is why i work and show respect. It's not hard!!

Well done!! That is exactly the kind of thing i was talking about, parents need to set an example, because who do you think their going to model themselves on?

But you may not agree with the fact that my son did receive a tap on the back of the hand for any unacceptable behaviour. I know a lot of people disagree with smaking children but i chose to use it and it worked.

mort wrote:
But you may not agree with the fact that my son did receive a tap on the back of the hand for any unacceptable behaviour. I know a lot of people disagree with smaking children but i chose to use it and it worked.

It works for now, but how about when he's a teenager, or when he leaves home? Take a look at the statitics on mental health.

Surely we can agree that each of us are individuals with different needs/wants.
Surely we can agree that all of us either child or adult need direction and purpose.
A child's first and main interaction is going to be with parent(s). Obviously the parent must give help and direction, then in later years society will become involved.
Hopefully the parent will bring the offspring up to be a model citizen. To do that they recognise the need to use a little gentle force or clever psychology depending on the child's reaction and the parents skills.
Gentle force could of course produce a violent adult or not.
Clever psychology could produce a mentally damaged adult or not.
So, my view is that all the comments above are correct to some degree or other.
How come children brought up the same respond differently.
The main needs are direction, leadership and, if necessary discipline (either physical or psychological depending on the individual!).
This then carries on throughout life, but normally "the authorities" take over and, unfortunately the authorities are seen as weak, so direction and leadership is out of the window.

jovialcommonsense wrote:
Surely we can agree that each of us are individuals with different needs/wants. Surely we can agree that all of us either child or adult need direction and purpose. A child's first and main interaction is going to be with parent(s). Obviously the parent must give help and direction, then in later years society will become involved. Hopefully the parent will bring the offspring up to be a model citizen. To do that they recognise the need to use a little gentle force or clever psychology depending on the child's reaction and the parents skills. Gentle force could of course produce a violent adult or not. Clever psychology could produce a mentally damaged adult or not. So, my view is that all the comments above are correct to some degree or other. How come children brought up the same respond differently. The main needs are direction, leadership and, if necessary discipline (either physical or psychological depending on the individual!). This then carries on throughout life, but normally "the authorities" take over and, unfortunately the authorities are seen as weak, so direction and leadership is out of the window.

Very well said. I agree that some children will respond to different things, but the fact is that in this country if you beat your child you will have them taken away from you, because frankly the human race has evolved to the point that there are other things that work. If parents have to hit their child to get them to do what theywant then in my opinion they have failed that child as a parent, because they have not managed to teach that child the basics of society without resorting to violence, the base, uncivilised instinct that we are suposed to have thrown off. I think that if we dont evolve from this then thousends of years of eveloution will have been pointless and we may as well just give up and die.

p.s
I dont particualy mean to offend anyone but its a good point that had to be made eventualy.

Chips.
You use emotive language.
No sane person would "beat" or "hit" their child.
However a"tap" (as mort has successfully used) to gain the child's attention is a totally different thing. If a child were running into the road would you try and discuss the problem or would you "violently" grab and pull them away from danger.
I do agree with you in general, but I also appreciate others have the right to do as they see fit (legally) in the individual circumstances.
You cannot prescribe for every individual in every situation.
There has to be trust in society and a safety net when and as that trust has been misplaced.
Many parents have failed their child(ren) even without the use of "violence".

jovialcommonsense wrote:
Chips. You use emotive language. No sane person would "beat" or "hit" their child. However a"tap" (as mort has successfully used) to gain the child's attention is a totally different thing. If a child were running into the road would you try and discuss the problem or would you "violently" grab and pull them away from danger. I do agree with you in general, but I also appreciate others have the right to do as they see fit (legally) in the individual circumstances. You cannot prescribe for every individual in every situation. There has to be trust in society and a safety net when and as that trust has been misplaced. Many parents have failed their child(ren) even without the use of "violence".

Very true, but i dont think that we were ever talking baout a "tap" here, you "tap" somone on the shoulder to get their attention, when people inflict pain on their child to tell them somthing is wrong, now that is hitting. If people cant get thier pont accross to a child without hitting them then they shouldent be a parent, end of story. I do fully agree that poeple are entiataled to parent as they like and that a "tap" is pefectly acceptible, but it is against the law to hit ANYONE without provocation, as it should be.

Chips we could go round in circles here.
You say educate parents....I agree,but too many will not respond.
Posters were originally talking about the cane and/or the birch.... neither were used or intended to be used other than as a last resort, after plenty of provocation.
Therefore surely our society needs to educate (discipline) parents and educate (discipline) children to ensure best results for the next generations benefit. I see nothing wrong in helping educate those who are willing to try and make a better society.
I see nothing wrong in punishment to those who wish to ignore their responsibilities to society.
Punishment by counselling( that's how the offender will see it) is the preferred option, but if ineffective I see nothing wrong in using physical punishments, introduced after proper consideration and not in anger.

jovialcommonsense wrote:
Chips we could go round in circles here. You say educate parents....I agree,but too many will not respond. Posters were originally talking about the cane and/or the birch.... neither were used or intended to be used other than as a last resort, after plenty of provocation. Therefore surely our society needs to educate (discipline) parents and educate (discipline) children to ensure best results for the next generations benefit. I see nothing wrong in helping educate those who are willing to try and make a better society. I see nothing wrong in punishment to those who wish to ignore their responsibilities to society. Punishment by counselling( that's how the offender will see it) is the preferred option, but if ineffective I see nothing wrong in using physical punishments, introduced after proper consideration and not in anger.

Whats wrong with it is that it is imoral, uncivilised and imiture. Does no one else see this as a moral dilema, as aposed to a logical one? the fact is that the ideal and logical solution is to all kill our selves, but most of us dont want to do that so we need to evolve socialy to the point were we dont need to and the human race has reached balance and harmony. I know thats a long way off but as long as we are even willing to solve any problem with violence we are just going to keep being miserable untill we wipe eachother out.

I hoped i would never see the day when i was single handedly having to argue for the moral developement of the human race...

Civilised? That's really broadened the discussion.
Is it civilised for a psychologist to listen, counsel and lead another....who is to say the psychologist isn't being immoral and immature? (Shipman as a GP for example)
Is it civilised for the bad in society to do as they wish to the detriment of all?
Is it a civilised society when people are afraid to leave their own homes through some kind of fear?
Is it a civilised society that has extreme wealth and extreme poverty?
I could go on and on, but I won't.

What a load of old codswallop!

I bet you a £1 to a lump of mud that Chips does not have any children!
.
All these words, when two will do - "Parental Guidance".
.
When child of 18 months is crawling across a floor to an electric socket, you say "no" forcefully - and they ignore you - because that's what kids do.
You, as a responsible parent, leap from your chair and smack them on the hand - they cry easily, but also soon stop at that age. Lesson learnt.

Trust me , they listen to you next time, Chips! It's called love - something psychiatrists have never heard of and don't have in their beloved Portfolio.
.
The ones who don't get smacked, go on to better things - like muggings and burglary, etc.
.
People like Chips are extremely dangerous and are responsible, by and large, for the state of society today!

I hope you guys are proud of your achievments! I think they stink!
CS.

Well said..Common Sense, you have an apt name.
The trouble with these "Do Gooders", is they do not realise that they are the culprits, but they blame everyone else.
I heard one kid say to their Mother, when told off for doing something wrong, and his reply," was you cant tell me what to do, if you do I will tell the police". Chips, you keep on saying the Parents are to blame, no they are not, the leftwing Progressives are to blame, they are destroying the fabric of society, and because they control the Government, and Police, they are getting away with it.
Many of the Progressives, I am sorry to say are psychologists.

So let me get this straight, because i tap and i mean tap my child on the back of the hand to stop him doing something that could hurt him or another child i am beating my child?!? for heaven's sake grow up!
I am more than willing to let social services see my child and ask him about his upbringing as i would never do anything to hurt him and am very annoying that you would jump on my parenting 'chips'.
It's this P.C attitude that has let our children run riot in the first place so take it to someone that deserves it.

Flipping heck, obviously ive attracted all the former parents here...
Look, the difference between counseling and beating your child is that the first is generally of the persons own free will. You lot are all so secure in your view that the only way to teach a child is to hit it, well go ahead and i hope the correct agency find out. The fact is that a gentle tap to get their attention or pulling them out of danger is not what we are talking about here, i have not objection to that, but if you start to use real pain as a teaching tool, well that child abuse and i hope anyone who advocates it gets what they deserve. Oh and no i have no children, but i do have a younger sister i saw grow up and she is the sweetest, most polite a selfless child i have ever met because my parents took the time, once the situation was over, to explain what she had done wrong, or what she shouldn't do so me and my sister understand why we shouldent do things, wereas most children through physical disipline only understand that they you dont want them to do it.

p.s
what does eveyone have against psychology? its a well studied feild, and has been proven right many times. Oh and will people stop using old and annoying expressions to say what im saying is rubbish.

i do not use pain as a teaching tool. I stopped tapping my child on the back of the hand when he was 3 as he could better understand what i was trying to explain to him. If i had sat him down at 2 years old and reasoned with him in an adult way i might as well have put my head in the oven.
The proof is i have a decent and polite child. As a person with no children isn't it hard to judge others?

I agree, the Birch and the Bostal, this lilly livered namby pamby everyones point of view is equally valid is what caused society all the problems it has today - And as for psychology being a well studied field and proven right, Hmm lets think the first part of the 20th Century was spent with Freudian Psyco-analysis, when that didn't work they went round doing lobotomys with Ice Picks, when that fell out of favour they started pumping electric shocks through peoples brains, and then the last part of the century was spent keeping people doped up on drugs, the only sure thing about psychology is every 20 years a completely new theory comes out that totally opposite to everything done before.

DarrenM wrote:
I agree, the Birch and the Bostal, this lilly livered namby pamby everyones point of view is equally valid is what caused society all the problems it has today - And as for psychology being a well studied field and proven right, Hmm lets think the first part of the 20th Century was spent with Freudian Psyco-analysis, when that didn't work they went round doing lobotomys with Ice Picks, when that fell out of favour they started pumping electric shocks through peoples brains, and then the last part of the century was spent keeping people doped up on drugs, the only sure thing about psychology is every 20 years a completely new theory comes out that totally opposite to everything done before.

LOL, do some research, no one believes or condones him any more, his theory's are sick and twisted as far as I'm concerned, you should not judge the entire field because of one loon. frankly i am sick of arguing for the morals of the human race on my own, so im just gonna leave you to it, you know my position and im sure you'll have just as much success moving it when im not listening. I would just like to say that if you want to go abuse a child, go ahead i hope you get caught, flippin savage, immature, uncivilised and pointless it may be, but at least it stops em' from getting in the way(!)