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We don’t want ID cards, says county (From Worcester News)
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We don’t want ID cards, says county
12:50pm Saturday 21st February 2009
WORCESTERSHIRE County Council will oppose the Government’s controversial multi-billion-pound ID card scheme “at every possible stage”, councillors have resolved.
Members at County Hall backed a Liberal and Liberal Democrat-led motion that the authority only co-operate with the scheme “where to do otherwise would be unlawful”.
The council will now refuse to take part in pilot schemes or feasibility studies and has resolved that ID cards will not be required to access council services unless specifically required by law. It will also back the national No2ID campaign.
Proposing the motion, Liberal Councillor Fran Oborski said: “This is a fundamental threat to the relationship between the citizen and the state – and these things do not work.
“ID cards are compulsory in Spain and they did not stop the Madrid bombings.
“They will not stop illegal immigration, because visitors won’t be required to get one unless they’re staying here for more than three months.
“And frankly the record of this Government with keeping personal details is diabolical.”
Coun Oborski’s words were backed by Liberal Democrat Councillor Di Raynor.
“When I first came into this this world this country was fighting a dictatorship – fighting for freedom,” she said. “As I get towards the end of my life I find this country is looking for ways to take away these freedoms.
“This is something we should fight just as surely as we fought on the beaches. Your freedom, my freedom, our grandchildren’ freedom is under threat.”
Conservative council leader Councillor George Lord said that he was “quite happy to support this motion unreservedly”.
ID cards are already being issued to foreign nationals in the UK, and will be extended to the rest of the population – initially on a voluntary basis – during 2010 and 2011.
The Government says the cost to the taxpayer will be £5.6 billion, though a study by the London School of Economics suggested it could be closer to £20 billion.
Labour councillors spoke out in support of the scheme, with group leader Councillor John Buckley stating he “did not know what all the fuss is about”.
“We do have a problem with the cost and the security and I would want some reassurances,” he said. “But as someone who travels a lot I see these cards all over Europe.”
His Labour colleague Edgar Harwood said: “We’re well behind other European countries on this, they’re extremely useful and I think the sooner the better.”
Other Labour councillors said the council chamber was not the right place for the debate, and that they would abstain.
The motion to oppose ID cards was carried by 34 votes to two, with 15 abstentions.
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Your Say Your Worcester
RTC, Worcestershire says...
2:19pm Sat 21 Feb 09
I have no issues with ID cards - in my profession I carry one ALL of the time. Anyone who is opposed clearly has something to hide.
anarchist, St Johns says...
2:31pm Sat 21 Feb 09
It is great news that our County Council will not co-operate with this asinine government ID card scheme that will cost a fortune, put our sensitive data at risk and yet offer nothing that cannot be obtained in other far simpler and far more effective ways.
brooksider, worcester says...
3:11pm Sat 21 Feb 09
anarchist wrote:Typical paranioa.
Yes I have a lot to hide from a government that makes my sensitive information so easily available to any crook who wants it. It is great news that our County Council will not co-operate with this asinine government ID card scheme that will cost a fortune, put our sensitive data at risk and yet offer nothing that cannot be obtained in other far simpler and far more effective ways.
One of the objectives is to cut down on crime and fraud.
The LSE's estimated cost of £20 billion is tiny compared to the savings the cards will make.
anarchist, St Johns says...
3:32pm Sat 21 Feb 09
What on earth will ID cards do in reducing crime? Nobody has to carry an ID card the ID Card Bill itself states that the Police have no right to demand to see them.
So, maybe you can explain how these magic cards will reduce crime?
brooksider, worcester says...
4:10pm Sat 21 Feb 09
£1.7 billion lost in identity crime.
2 reasons alone!
Your also a suffering from a mis-conception that the cards will have magical powers, I assure you they won't!
clerken, malvern says...
4:26pm Sat 21 Feb 09
anarchist, St Johns says...
5:05pm Sat 21 Feb 09
So even if ID cards worked perfectly they could not save more than this. In practice, since these cards will soon be forged, they will not stop professional benefit fraudsters so the savings will be even lower.
The financial crime arising from misrepresenting identity is again a small part of your £1.7 billion.
Moreover, almost all of this fraud is still in the private sector so the private sector should pay for solutions, not taxpeyers.
In fact most of this fraud is down to debit and credit card details being cloned and used abroad. And ID cards won't do anything to stop this. And of course ID cards won't do anything to stop online card fraud. APACS - the industry body responsible for preventing these sorts of fraud - has made it very clear that ID cards have very little value for them and are way down their list of priorities.
So spending £500 million per year of taxpayers money on ID cards to save, at most, £50 million on benefit fraud and to provide solutions to private sector fraud that the private sector should find for themselves makes no sense.
anarchist, St Johns says...
5:24pm Sat 21 Feb 09
This is bacause the government is only funding the cards themselves and is leaving any organisation that wants to use ID cards to fund the compuetrs, caard readers etc. themselves.
The costs involved are horrendous and will either put Council Tax up a lot or take money away from the things you say you want.
If you read what was said in the motion you will see that it is mostly about cost vs benefit with ID cards creating high costs with no significant benefits.
So its really a 'no brainer' for them.
Doogie 46, Worcester says...
6:12pm Sat 21 Feb 09
Also over the last 12 years every initiative this government has tried to implement has turned into a total cockup (even the occasional good idea turns into a disaster)
I can`t see a project as complicated as ID Cards being being within their very limited capabilities.
brooksider, worcester says...
10:17pm Sat 21 Feb 09
The figure of £50 million was an estimate given to the Home Affairs Commitee by Chris Pond MP in 2004. He also said the figure would increase as other benefit fraud reduces.
He also made it clear ID cards would help reduce Other types of benefit frauds and the costs of detacting them.
Anarchist fails to realise the government acts in the interests of the whole of society including his "bogie man" the private sector
Logik, Worcester says...
12:39am Sun 22 Feb 09
Who are you trying to kid. Seems like Nu-Labour supporters are rife with their support on this matter. Nothing to hide and nothing to fear - Bull!! Create panic and hysteria so they can do just whatever they want more like.
Just how long before they go the whole hog and have us all fitted with tracking devices, that is after all what they want to do with cars isn't it. Bleed us dry and track our movements all day long, this country doesn't somehow seem to be that free any more.
The government (whoever is in power the Civil Servants are the same) cannot be trusted with data and personally I wouldn't trust them with a tube of Smarties let alone anything else.
anarchist, St Johns says...
12:45am Sun 22 Feb 09
It is absurd to spend taxpayer's money on countering private sector fraud when the private sector is already doing this in a cost effective way.
When such fraud gets large enough to justify an investment in counter-measures, this investment is made by the private sector with no need for taxpayer intervention.
Morover, anyone who thinks that the government can do a better job on this than the private sector evidently hasn't noticed just how bad the government is at doing this sort of thing.
And, of course, we haven't even mentioned the many people who will refuse on principle to have or use ID cards. ID cards won't offer much if they are not universal and the 20% or so who will refuse to have them are more than sufficient to undermine any possible benefit that they might offer.
New Kid on the Block, Worcester says...
3:18pm Mon 23 Feb 09
I am totally opposed to the introduction of ID cards. The bunch of control freaks that call themselves the Government have more than enough information about me already.
I don't want my every move to be followed thank you. We are already under more than enough surveilance without big brother getting any more help.
I don't think that I am being paranoid in objecting to carrying a card that will contain a chip that can be remotely read. The idea is that you won't have to produce your card as the RFID tag will mean that anyone with the right equipment can read it anyway.
Have a look at www.no2id.net for some usefull information or if you only believe government sources try www.ips.gov.uk/ident
ity/scheme-what-run.
asp#nir
Your sayYour Worcester
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CARDS: Home Secretary Jacqui Smith holds an example of a new identity card, which the county council has voted to oppose.
brooksider, worcester says...
2:09pm Sat 21 Feb 09
Before they spend MY money on this campaign they should all resign and try to get re-elected on this issue.
The people opposed to ID cards have something to hide, just like our little pigs with their noses in the council expenses trough.