Coursing pre-dates greyhound racing (From Worcester News)
Get involved! Send your photos, video, news & views by texting WN NEWS to 80360 or e-mail us
Coursing pre-dates greyhound racing
1:10pm Wednesday 13th April 2011 in Read
SIR – Paul Chandler (Worcester News, April 1) gives the false impression that greyhounds were only ever bred to “race around a track” rather than for coursing.
He will actually find the greyhound, like its cousins the Saluki and the Afghan, have been with us since ancient times.
The first coursing club was established in this country in 1776 long before greyhound track racing appeared in 1926.
Clearly, if Mr Chandler is wrong about these simple facts, the rest of his correspondence and views are open to some suspicion.
By attempting to connect the street entertainment of bull baiting and dog fighting to coursing, Mr Chandler exposes the porosity of his argument.
As far back as AD116 the Greek philosopher Flavius Arrianus made clear the pursuit of coursing was not about catching the hare.
This ideal remains with the coursing community to this day. Mr Chandler describes my opinions as “mediaeval”
but his demands for censorship of my letters to the Worcester News sound like a dictator from any time in history.
JON BURGESS
Worcester
Comments(12)
tub_thumper
says...
9:55pm Thu 14 Apr 11
sharpy
says...
9:40pm Fri 15 Apr 11
History has a lot to teach us - if we are prepared to learn that is !
I've double checked all the facts in Jon Burgess's letter and he is correct about everything.
tub_thumper
says...
11:21am Sat 16 Apr 11
.
Yes, Jon is correct. But why does he base his views on practices that have been happening for nearly 2000 years?
.
I agree with you Sharpy, history does teach us a lot. But people’s views are endlessly changing – something which history cannot change. Women carrying out herbal remedy practices in the Middle Ages were burnt at the stake. Their crime? Supposedly being a witch. Think about it...
sharpy
says...
6:39pm Sat 16 Apr 11
Don't think the Greeks were into witchcraft or burning at the stake, democracy, freedom and learning was their bag.
From the Jon Burgess's letter we can all see Paul Chandler knows zero about coursing yet he decided to put in his 2 penny worth so adding nothing to the debate bar wasted news print.
Liked to go to the Waterloo Cup myself
until the ban. The area at Altcar used for the Cup in Lancashire was an oasis of green in a sea of arable land. There was a gamekeeper on estate with 2 part time assistance who protected the hares from poachers from near by Liverpool.The hares took their chance 3 or 4 times a season during a coursing meeting in exchange for some stock feed carrots in the winter, protection from poachers and the maintenance of the many acres of grazing that would normally be ploughed up for arable farming. If the ban continues this area will be ploughed up for sure, the two keepers assistance will lose interest as they were not paid, the carrots will be sold for cattle feed, the poachers will still come out at night until the hares have gone.
This is very boring practical stuff I know but it's unfortunately true.
tub_thumper
says...
12:47pm Sun 17 Apr 11
.
By the way, you did not except to learn from history did you?
sharpy
says...
10:40pm Sun 17 Apr 11
Not sure what your last message is all about, please elaborate.
Forgot to add on my last message the Altcar estate tolerated a large number of hare eating a good quantity of the veg /arable crops where as other farms would have had an annual hare shoot in February to reduce their numbers.
tub_thumper
says...
10:20pm Mon 18 Apr 11
.
I don’t understand why a gamekeeper would want to protect hares from poachers when in the following weeks they would be killed by a greyhound under the watchful eye of gambling yokels. A celebration of bloodsports perhaps? Oh, perish the thought!
.
Whether the poachers kill the hares or the Waterloo Cup does the same is irrelevant.
sharpy
says...
7:51pm Tue 19 Apr 11
So we are going to avoid witch craft
and burning at stake which ended in 1485. (Think burning of religious heretics continued until later)
Back to the main point of debate
"Gambling yokels" if you were describing a race religion or sexuality
you would end up in the Court but country folk have to put up with this.
How many hares live on the Altcar Estate, and how many were caught during the 3 days of the Waterloo Cup. This is the first first part of the equation.
How many hares would be left on the Estate if the agriculture were far less sympathetic to their needs, there was no serious keepering and little or no protection from poachers is the second part.
Your comments please tubs
tub_thumper
says...
12:13am Wed 20 Apr 11
.
“Gambling yokels” is a non-discriminatory term. I could have used terms such as “Country-bumpkin
or “Redneck”, but I thought against it. Only people with a politically correct axe to grind would see such insult in these terms. Life is too short to worry about “sticks and stones…”
.
How many hares were caught then, Sharpy? The fact of the matter, is the Waterloo Cup, as you so highly recommend, has nothing to do with status-driven rich-man in the gambling of a self-indulgence in the killing of a helpless animal? If a poacher wants to do this then this is wrong. But if the Waterloo Cup wants to then that’s all right? I don’t get it!
Guy66
says...
8:40am Wed 20 Apr 11
1. To trespass on another's property in order to take fish or game.
2. To take fish or game in a forbidden area.
3. To take or appropriate something unfairly or illegally.
4. To take or appropriate unfairly or illegally.
Waterloo Cup
The Waterloo Cup was a coursing event. The three day event was run annually at Great Altcar in Lancashire, England from 1836 to 2005 and it used to attract tens of thousands of spectators to watch and gamble on the coursing matches. It was founded by William Philip Molyneux, 2nd Earl of Sefton, and, originally, was supported by his patronage
Let me guess the 2nd Earl of Sefton owned the land.
Do you get it now?
tub_thumper
says...
11:22pm Wed 20 Apr 11
.
(http://en.wikipedia
.org/wiki/Waterloo_C
up)
.
(And there I was thinking that you needed to witness events with your own eyes than using an unreliable source such as Internet articles)! HA!
sharpy
says...
9:06pm Thu 21 Apr 11
In my last post I was attempting to explain how coursing has a clear net benefit to the hare. The coursing clubs protect the hare so they can enjoy their way of life etc. very few get caught so their is a surplus which increases the overall population. The poacher has no interest in conserving their target be it hare , rabbit or deer. It's just catch and kill as many as possible.
Many people do not realise the number of officials required by the rules of the National Coursing Club at each meeting. The most important of these is the coursing inspector. It's their job to see the hare is not put at a disadvantage and all routes of escape are open. I have witnessed a meeting stopped on two occasions by the inspector for these reasons.
At Altcar at the end of the coursing ground there is a large area of rhododendrons for the hare to escape into. behind this is an 8ft high larch lap
fence with a 8in gap underneath, this allows the hare to escape again but stops the greyhounds from following.
If the the idea of coursing was to catch as many hares as possible why go to all this trouble to let them escape ???
I reckon there are 3 hundred hares living at Altcar maybe 10 would be caught over the 3 days of the Waterloo.
In return they have acres of grass, protection and winter feed.
The bottom line = 290 hares left to breed and spread out into the surrounding countryside.
Please note that no coursing ground is enclosed in the U.K. as many people are led to believe and the hares are not released from boxes.
Comment now! Register or sign in below.
Log in with us
Fields marked with * are mandatory.
Or
Log in with